Ironsides achievement feedback

I have now tried in various ways to get the Ironsides achievement for Hogarth. Today we did a duo run Ivey/Hogarth (thanks yobbobear!). After my guess is about 90 minutes Ivey had only 18% of her achievement and Hogarth failed to complete his. The achievement seems particularly hard to do and requires extremely particular play. While some other hero achievements require some planning and specific play, this one seems rather extreme.

My guess is 200k or 250k damage taken in one game is more sensible and would still be quite hard to do.  Also some way to see damage taken in game would make the achievement less frustrating because one literally has no idea how far one is in game. This is different to say Max's Faces Down, where one can see multikill popups for at least a hint if a shot was likely successful. Given the extreme time commitment the achievement currently takes the lack of feedback is pretty bad.

«1

Comments

  • My opinion is that his achievement should be a cumulative on like Ive's and so many others... It was just exaggerated.
  • Note that some of that 18% healing could have been from before that game. In which case we did less than that in the 1.5 hours we played.
    At a couple of points Hogarth was taking damage about as fast as I could heal him, although this was not consistent through the entire length of the game.

    Assume rate of 100 damage per second.
    1,000,000 damage/100 = 10,000 seconds
    10,000 seconds = 167 minutes (rounding up)
    167 minutes =  2 hours 47 minutes of constant damage

    This however does not take into account any time you may need to break combat and heal up, or any time between waves of minions hitting you.
    If Ivy casts approx every 15 seconds, Hogarth will take approx 1500 damage during that time at the above rates.





  • It might be too "hard" but I think it's definetely doable. Sure it needs some specific strategy and going for it.

    Using Healing well and health siphon on an endless game, letting minions hit you all the time should let you get it rather "easy".
    I played a game on The Wall endless as Hogarth solo, it was before the achievement existed and I wasn't trying to get hit by anything at all. After just 1 hour or so, wave 26 I got a bit more than 200k damage received.

    Playing in party and aiming for it should be enough to make it.
  • Problem is that damage taken is constant. I.e. the party does not add damage you take.

    200k an hour seems about right. That's what I also got when I tried this solo playing to maximize damage taken.

    Taking that number from wall it'd be 5 hours in a single game to make the achievement. Now perhaps someone can trim that down to a 3:30 hour timeline. But I believe if it is doable when someone actually pulled it off. Even then I'm not sure I'd consider it sensible. 3:30 of intentional hard-tanking is pretty darn mind-numbing and requiring a party to sit with you for 3:30 hours for it is quite an ask.

    And one has no idea if one is close or not. So you can spend that 3:30 hours and get nothing after and only then learn that you were off by say some 1000 damage. So go restart for another 3:30 hours of mind-numbing hard tanking. Not that great an achievement in my book.
  • Gorkster said:
    Problem is that damage taken is constant. I.e. the party does not add damage you take.

    200k an hour seems about right. That's what I also got when I tried this solo playing to maximize damage taken.

    Taking that number from wall it'd be 5 hours in a single game to make the achievement. Now perhaps someone can trim that down to a 3:30 hour timeline. But I believe if it is doable when someone actually pulled it off. Even then I'm not sure I'd consider it sensible. 3:30 of intentional hard-tanking is pretty darn mind-numbing and requiring a party to sit with you for 3:30 hours for it is quite an ask.

    And one has no idea if one is close or not. So you can spend that 3:30 hours and get nothing after and only then learn that you were off by say some 1000 damage. So go restart for another 3:30 hours of mind-numbing hard tanking. Not that great an achievement in my book.
    You are wrong. Damage isn't constant and party makes a big difference in this achievement.

    Damage goes up per wave in endless.
    If I got 200k damage playing regularly solo, that means that in party I could have gotten atleast 2x further or more. And I could have probably gotten easily atleast 500k damage playing regularly. Now if you force damage on you, it should be pretty doable. Not easy and probably tedious but there are worse and more annoying achievements... 
  • The problem is that as long as noone has done this achievement we don't know if it is actually doable. In fact we have no evidence at this point if the achievement is bug free. I've done quite a bit to try to get the achievement. I'm not close by any definition of the word. If you can do it it'll do us a service. All I know is that this achievement is either undoable or extreme and for that reason I advocate that it should be retuned. There is literally only Empty Pocket that to me also deserves that comment and I have done all but 10 achievements and the remaining 8 (that are not bugged) are doable if more or less tedious.
  • edited April 5
    I rather try tp get an achievement that more than 50% of our community can achieve it eventually and not a one that requires super micromanagement....
    So this is how we add small words under our post/comments.
  • Thank you for the feedback on this achievement difficulty! We've let the team know about it. :)
    French Community Manager
  • Just as heads up, I did it a few days ago. It was a decent performance but it can still be done quite more efficiently. It was done in a match of just 75 minutes at The Wall Endless.



    Please don't make everything in this game easy. Leave some challenges and some things hard/tedious to achieve. And ofcourse, reward accordingly.



  • I disagree. If this was an achievement that was soloable then I would not have any problem with this difficulty. But this achievements requires 2 teammates of whom you have to be willing to risk 2 hours of their precious time to potentially get the achievement. Further you can fail this achievement also because your teammates fail to properly support it not because you per se played it wrong. Given the time investment this is hardly sensible in my book.

    I'm not advocating for easy. I'm advocating for sensible.

  • I prefer more impossible achievements since I don't want to run out of milestones. After 5 staring every map then getting most of the chests I want some target to struggle to get. Rather than getting everything I want to look at my achievements and see several slowly improving milestones. Sagotage will hopefully improve this having to rival other people rather than comparing player level (which only goes so far).
  • I like achievements that are "impossible" but down to your individual performance, over achievements that are tedious and can be messed up by teammates. This one is perfectly doable, but it's down to getting 2 teammates that properly support you and have them execute not just you. I may well have had this achievement if I hadn't had a teammate who insisted on stunning minions rather than let them hit me. But that wouldn't have changed that I think it's ridiculous that you have to enlist 2 people and spend this much time to get a solo achievement.

    I do have all non-bugged achievements in the game minus the money spent one and this one. Frankly I suspect that noone else has done that level of achievements, so I'm not like I'm worried about tedium or challenge.

    Another solution would be to convert this to a team achievement. After all it does require a team of 3 to pull off currently. That would make a lot more sense than how it is currently set up. I'm partial to solo play so I prefer it was just soloable.

  • @Gorkster You got the proof that it is possible so why changing anything that obviously works?! Maybe it's possible to solo on another endless map like eventide fortress or crogon keep. And if it's really only doable with a group that's also ok. Omdu is not intended as a total solo game.
  • Just as heads up, I did it a few days ago. It was a decent performance but it can still be done quite more efficiently. It was done in a match of just 75 minutes at The Wall Endless.



    Please don't make everything in this game easy. Leave some challenges and some things hard/tedious to achieve. And of course, reward accordingly.



    I think you forgot to report in the bugs section that this achievement is not showing on your steam profile.

    btw If you really think that everything in this game is easy and you are not having fun anymore maybe it is time to retire it and go play something else, I haven't played Dark Souls yet but I've heard it is challenging and hard maybe it is a game you should try :D
    People like us that have tons of time in this game, maybe if we are not feeling it anymore or having fun instead of come to the forums or discord to complain, brag and say it is easy... maybe it would be better just to play something else for a while.



    I am against achievements like this one or achievements that depends on luck most of the achievements in any game should be something that players can achieve playing normally and then some of the achievements should be like challenges task for players. This one does not show skills or anything else to me other that a player was able to exploit the game to get it. It is exaggerated for an achievement that should be done in one match only.
  • I think you forgot to report in the bugs section that this achievement is not showing on your steam profile.

    He is probably playing on the Robot launcher, so it won't update the steam achievements until he logs back into steam.
    Keep it secret, Keep it safe.
    New? Here are some Game Tipz.
  • Something being doable and something being sensible are not the same thing.

    No, it's not likely doable on any other map than the wall and with less players. And if it is doable it will take an even more insane amount of time per attempt. If I thought it'd be soloable in any way I'd actually be in game right now and cranking out attempts. But it's virtually certain that it is not possible due to the required damage scaling from being in a 3-man team. I'm no longer trying this mainly because I have tried enough times and I can no longer justify wasting my teammates time on attempts to get it. I'm fine with wasting my time. As said I have all doable achievements in the game aside this one.

    I'm not opposed to team achievements though currently Ivy's is the only other achievement that requires teammates. But if you do do team achievements make them about the team. I actually think that Ivy's achievement would be better if self-heal counted for something. That achievement too is too sensitive to other player's behavior. But at the very least other players not cooperating or executing specific things doesn't completely destroy the achievement for you.

    Talking about team achievements I'd love to see a team combo achievement! How about total coin as a team? I'd be up for that. Those require people to work together and get it done and if everybody executes everybody gets the achievement. That is an actual sensible team achievement.
  • @SenatorBird @Gorkster Sorry but I disagree with you.

    Maybe I played too many grindy and not so easy MMOs with achievement systems but: In my honest opinion, a game nowadays should have content aimed to everyone, it's fine if most of it is doable by just playing a lot ror by everyone that plays but there should always be some stuff that is more selective.

    If they are achievements, it's ok that most of them can be just achieved by just playing a lot, but there is no reason to not have some that are Hard to get. Achievements that need team coordination, very precise performance, high skill, a lot of luck, etc.

    This is a F2P and quite co-op oriented, there is no reason to not have achievements or content that requires a team to be done. 


    I think that the achievement is doable solo and probably that map isn't the easiest one to get it on. Also the Achievement is indeed not showing in the Steam profile, thanks for pointing that out.
  • @SenatorBird @Gorkster Sorry but I disagree with you.

    Maybe I played too many grindy and not so easy MMOs with achievement systems but: In my honest opinion, a game nowadays should have content aimed to everyone, it's fine if most of it is doable by just playing a lot ror by everyone that plays but there should always be some stuff that is more selective.

    If they are achievements, it's ok that most of them can be just achieved by just playing a lot, but there is no reason to not have some that are Hard to get. Achievements that need team coordination, very precise performance, high skill, a lot of luck, etc.

    This is a F2P and quite co-op oriented, there is no reason to not have achievements or content that requires a team to be done. 


    I think that the achievement is doable solo and probably that map isn't the easiest one to get it on. Also the Achievement is indeed not showing in the Steam profile, thanks for pointing that out.
    Not that I played a lot of MMOs either... I don't expect you to agree with me and this is totally fine and this is a forum after all and Like the Romans we shall too gather here and express all different kind of opinion in different matter... My opinion with my experience of achievements on Steam, Origin and Uplay is that Irsonsides does not shows team coordination, very precise performance, high skill.... instead it shows exploit and a bit of luck.

    There are plenty of high skill achievements on steam.... Get 10 hit combo with every character on MKX is highskill, win 5 klassic king of the hill or survivor shows high skill, get 69 stars in the Batman challenges show skills, finish a game in a high difficulty shows lots of skills too and I could go on with lots of examples with high skill and precise performance like you mentioned but in my honest opinion Ironsides is far from being a achievement that shows Skill and performance, also grindy achievements does not show skills. I did not says that there shouldn't be hard achievements but I am more on  @Gorkster side when he talks about sensibility.

    For now I guess we will just have to walk way with our opinions.

  • I'm with @TimeMaster on this one. I'd like there to be easy, grindy, and hard achievements. This falls under the idea of hard.

    I make this comparison alot in private chats, but I LOVE Payday 2's achievements. Yeah, a few are BS, but the large majority are great. They're crazy off the wall stuff, some of which is very hard to get, and can take hours of trying to get. But it means once you get it, it's a bragging right.
    Wiki Contributor: Juicearific - Got a wiki suggestion? Let me know.
    Welcome to Juicy's Midnight Assassination Service. You grab em, I'll stab em.
  • @SenatorBird @Gorkster Sorry but I disagree with you.

    Maybe I played too many grindy and not so easy MMOs with achievement systems but: In my honest opinion, a game nowadays should have content aimed to everyone, it's fine if most of it is doable by just playing a lot ror by everyone that plays but there should always be some stuff that is more selective.

    If they are achievements, it's ok that most of them can be just achieved by just playing a lot, but there is no reason to not have some that are Hard to get. Achievements that need team coordination, very precise performance, high skill, a lot of luck, etc.

    This is a F2P and quite co-op oriented, there is no reason to not have achievements or content that requires a team to be done. 


    I think that the achievement is doable solo and probably that map isn't the easiest one to get it on. Also the Achievement is indeed not showing in the Steam profile, thanks for pointing that out.
    I am not arguing that there shouldn't be selective content. I know I can get this content. I just don't think it's interesting or good. Let me give some examples. I don't think that Ivy's heal 1 mil is a nice achievement. I think an achievement where you heal someone below 10% health N number of times would be MORE interesting. I think a Hogarth achievement where you shield up just in time N number of times would be more interesting than the current Ironsides. Those would actually require finer timing and precision than the current achievements but would also less be "oh I have a tank who is willing to static stand there so I can heal them effectively, rather than playing the game as dynamically as it usually plays". 

    Nor am I arguing against coop oriented achievements. In fact if there were actual achievements that actually were about coop that'd be cool. 

    My precise objection to this achievement is (a) that it is a bizzare and artificial pattern of play that gets one the achievement not some good or particularly skillful type of play. It's a rather tedious 75-100 minutes of play where a lot of it is spend standing and tanking and hitting cooldowns. Only very few waves are actually interesting. It's fragile not only to ones own play but also and in some sense substantially to others plays. I.e. how much aggro are others pulling of you, do they know how to effectively lose aggro, do they know what not to do to limit your tank damage (such as stunning up minions). So you do this for 75-100 minutes and because someone pulled too much aggro and stunned things up too much, you can try another 75-100 minutes where it will actually yield nothing new or exciting. (b) it appears to require teammates and their time, and the time commitment is substantial. I have tried this with a few people. I don't think a single one was excited to try this again. No surprise. It's really dull to stand there watching the tank and healer hit cooldowns until the mob timer expires. If this was interesting I wouldn't have reservations asking people to join for another attempt. If it was an actual coop achievement and they too would get something out of it, great. That's not really what it currently is.

    I honestly think that this achievement would be better if tank heavy but normal play on wall endless with all the good prep that our runs had gets you the required amount. It would spell "yes you know how to use your tankiness to your advantage". That is not how the achievement plays out currently.

    As for team play achievements, bring it! I cannot way for a high combo team achievement.
«1
Sign In or Register to comment.