Vanity Avatars 2: the Electric Bugaloo

My original idea was to come here and scream because, well, first, y'all made it real hard to figure out how to change avatars. Now, though, you've removed a handful of them. Now, I thought you guys were gonna lock those behind a paywall and I was going to have a real reason to bitch complain, but I was pleasantly surprised. You just removed them. So, my suggestion is:

Tell us why you removed the avatars and why they can't be put back in. One of my two friends has already started dropping money on OMDU and he'd nearly convinced me to do the same; please don't do scummy things like taking away features and nice little aesthetic touches that people use.

Comments

  • There is other avatars in the premium shoppe but they have removed quite a lot of free ones from the website.
    I was disappointed too since you can no longer pick a bear.
  • BorousBorous Member
    Glad I'm not the only person that's bothered with the vanity plate update stripping out old avatars.
    I can't seem to pick one on the website now either.
    Seems like this is a mistake/oversight rather than an intentional bid to force people to play more and be able to use the premium shoppe.
    I hope.
  • There is other avatars in the premium shoppe but they have removed quite a lot of free ones from the website.
    I was disappointed too since you can no longer pick a bear.

    It's things like this that sour certain groups in the community. It may be only a tiny portion, but if it's really an issue, I want to hear why. Do a dozen 200x200 px avatars cause (more) latency issues on the server? If so, sure. Remove 'em. Being able to play the game is more important. If they don't affect gameplay, however, why would you remove something that a part of your playerbase enjoyed, thus taking some of the 'color' out of the game for a small group of people playing your game?

    Being a bear is important. I'm glad that your forum avatar, at least, seems unchanged. I thought mine was synced to the game and the forum, but apparently I'm remembering wrong or they've taken my forum avatar, too.

    Gorkster said:
    Some time in closed beta it was possible to pick stinkeye as avatar. That went away, then I picked a Satyr. Now that's gone. I do like the idea of vanity avatars but to be somewhat brutally honest I don't think the current selection is appealing. I did buy the bird not because I most identify with it but because it is the only one that in any way appealed to me. Putting more variety, and specifically hero and minion faces in there would make it much better!
    Removing content that people enjoy and locking equal or unappealing alternatives behind a paywall (or playwall, in the sense of Gibs) is not a sound move to make. I realize that you can't keep an entire community happy 100% of the time, but I think that removing any content should have a valid reason as to why.

    Borous said:
    Glad I'm not the only person that's bothered with the vanity plate update stripping out old avatars.
    I can't seem to pick one on the website now either.
    Seems like this is a mistake/oversight rather than an intentional bid to force people to play more and be able to use the premium shoppe.
    I hope.
    The fact that they moved vanity avatar selection to an in-launcher feature was actually a really good call. How Robot can take such a good improvement and sully it by removing content is pretty funny (read: dumb). I really hope it's a mistake. I hope they patch it soon™ with a "Sorry! We dun goofed!" message to those of us who actually care about this tiny detail. (Tiny details are often called 'polish' in games. It makes no sense to de-polish, right?)

    After thinking about it, I found ways to navigate around this, or to have Robot re-implement the avatars that have been removed.
    1. Just put 'em back, you ninnies.
    2. Put them in loot chests. I'd suggest one set in the lowest tier, one set in the second tier, and maybe some in the third tier of the campaign.
    3. Make them rotating challenge awards (like the Brawl avatars you get from the Brawl events in Heroes of the Storm).

    You have a lovely game, Robot Entertainment. I have a lot of fun playing it with my friends (except Shark Island; lagging into the water 3+ times a match while trying to wipe the wave right next to the core is... ugh. It's bad and wrong). The DLC for OMD2 were fairly priced. The DLC for OMD was... well... it really felt like you were trying to add to the experience, but it really fell short. What Re-Logic would have gladly done for free to revitalize interest in Terraria, you did for a couple of bucks a pop. You're not Re-Logic, though, so that's not a fair comparison. What I'm getting at is: you decided to move from pay-to-play to free-to-play. We just don't want to see you do something scummy like cutting out a tiny part of the game that doesn't affect gameplay and hiding it behind a pay or playwall. Just... be more considerate of what you give us, I guess?

    Honestly, I hope this doesn't sound harsh. I don't intend it to be. You've proven you listen to your community and you strive to make an enjoyable game. I really think you have a well-crafted product that I would've dropped twenty to thirty bucks just for the right to play. Just give us some feedback. That's really all I want from this one. A decent excuse as to why you would remove content that doesn't affect game balance or server balance.
  • JuicyJuicy Member, Master Founder, Early Access
    I would actually love mine to be synced with my account (I want lyzander here ^^!) but, I can see bringing back the previous f2p ones too.
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  • And on the third day, the community mods replied to the thread, saying "Lol k."
  • On the fourth day, the community mods repented and actually acknowledged that maybe the old avatars should be returned?
  • sashimiaksashimiak Member, Moderator, Robot Entertainment
    I apologize for the late reaction Chammykins (and everyone else). There are plans to bring back some of the old avatars and many completely new ones in the future. They will be unlockable via various methods. I know this isn't very specific, but I hope you guys stick around and let us know what you think once the new avatars are out (and the old ones are brought back.)
    German Community Manager
  • Soon™ :) Well, I'll hold onto hope, then. I doubt I would've stopped playing, since it is something so transparently cosmetic in nature that I probably shouldn't even worry about it, but I do feel rather incensed to follow through with this, since I spent ~20 minutes ranting to my friends about it as soon as I logged in and saw the changes for the first time. ANYWAYS, thanks for the response, sashimiak. I'm going to screenshot your response and spam it to twitter or some other social media every time y'all make a post! (I'm kidding; or am I?)
  • Wait. I posted way too soon and came back to read this again... "unlockable via various methods"? So, you're taking something that we earned by supporting your game at a developing time of its life-cycle, and putting them behind a pay/playwall? sashimiak, I realize that your job is to relay information from the developer to us and vice versa. Could we please get an official response as to why this move (I'm specifically talking about taking away cosmetic, launcher-and-forum-only tidbits and putting them behind what sounds like a paywall/playwall) has been undertaken? It seems to me that it goes against what a customer-oriented team would work towards. I'm not saying Robot Entertainment is money-grubbing; everyone deserves to get paid for their work. On the flip-side of that, though, if we stuck with you through three games, wouldn't it be okay to assume that you won't take (non-game) content away from us and then charge us either time or money for something you gave to us for being loyal fans?

  • After thinking about it, I found ways to navigate around this, or to have Robot re-implement the avatars that have been removed.
    1. Just put 'em back, you ninnies.
    2. Put them in loot chests. I'd suggest one set in the lowest tier, one set in the second tier, and maybe some in the third tier of the campaign.
    3. Make them rotating challenge awards (like the Brawl avatars you get from the Brawl events in Heroes of the Storm).

    You make a bunch of suggestions. Get them through playing etc.
    And then you complain about the thought of putting them behind a play wall.
    Wait. I posted way too soon and came back to read this again... "unlockable via various methods"? So, you're taking something that we earned by supporting your game at a developing time of its life-cycle, and putting them behind a pay/playwall? 
    That seems like you are contradicting yourself :expressionless:
    And also we didn't "earn" them, we got to choose any of them from the start.

    Here is my opinion, they are profile pics don't get so annoyed. The vanity profile just got introduced, they are still introducing things. They have stated, that it is a work in progress and is no way near finished.
    They are also probably going to link our in game icons to the forum soon. With the disconnect from the game being a quick fix.
    Keep it secret, Keep it safe.
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  • That seems like you are contradicting yourself :expressionless:
    And also we didn't "earn" them, we got to choose any of them from the start.
    Point taken! I have no right to change my mind after three days of mod silence! But, upon thinking on it further, I came to a thought.

    I allow you to pick from a dozen stickers and you pick the one you like. You put it on your forehead, because that's what you feel like doing. Over time, you get kinda used to seeing that sticker on your forehead whenever you look in the mirror. Without telling you, I take the sticker.

    "Where's my sticker?" you ask. "I liked that one."

    "Oh, I took it back. I'm going to let you earn it later, though. Maybe. Not all the stickers are coming back. Maybe."

    "Oh, okay, cool. So, I can just redo content in order to gain chests and they'll drop from that? Or maybe get one a week in challenge mode?"

    "Not currently, no," I explain. "Currently, you can get stickers (but not the one you want) by maxing out everything that is randomly generated from loot chests. You'll get this new Currency™ that you can spend to buy a new sheet of stickers."

    "But none of the sheets have my sticker..."

    "I'm going to let you earn it later. Maybe. Not all the stickers are coming back. Maybe."

    Should the sticker matter? Maybe not. I'm not going to stop playing the game because of vanity options. The point I'm trying to get at is, if you're going to take something out of a game (again, I tack on 'maybe' here, because Robot might not return them to the lineup), something you have already given the players, even if it's a sticker, taking it away or making players 'earn' the right to use it again sets a precedent. If they had given away a free skin or decided that the recent Tundra/Smolder giveaway had unbalanced things in some way and they removed these things, would you be more opposed to change like this?

    EA/Bioware didn't get to ME:A by making one bad decision. Each bad decision paved the way for the next bad decision. I said it above: Robot is not Re-Logic. Neither is it EA. I'm not saying "THE END IS NIGH." I'm just questioning the practice of removing content with (here's that maybe, again) no way (or an extremely grindy way) of getting it back, at this point. Sorry, again; I realize my original stance was different than what it is now. People change their minds and community managers use the word "some" as a qualifier to describe the amount of content that Robot has removed that they'll be returning.

    Final thought: On precedent, I once again commend Robot; they had a game that wasn't what people wanted to play and, as I understand it, they managed to merge elements of their new game with elements of OMD1 and OMD2. They have polished this game incredibly well. Lag issues that were present before the most recent patch don't seem to be present anymore (seriously, Shark Island without lagging off a pier due to a hung WASD input was great). I want Robot to succeed because OMD has been a really fun series. So, please take the wall of text above with a grain of salt, as it doesn't really tarnish what Robot has already done. It is literally me having a rant on something I am rather passionate about: ethical f2p video game publishing, those that break out of the Skinner box mold that is so common, and the small choices that add up over time that make the difference between Payday 2 before microtransactions and Payday 2 post microtransactions.
  • HarmoniaHarmonia Member, Administrator, Moderator, Robot Entertainment, Featured Developer
    The community feedback about the previously available avatars has been received, loud and clear, and been passed along to the development team internally. We talked about this on the Orcs After Dark stream last Thursday right after the update.

    As several players have said in the thread the vanity system is brand new and also not yet complete. We rolled out some of the features (avatars and backplates) alongside the Premium Shoppe, and as we covered on the previous Insider Access eposide a future update will also contain badges and titles, and additional vanity items like more avatars and backplates. 

    We'll have more info to share as that update approaches, but for now you can rest assured that the feedback has made it to the team here at Robot. The forum and game avatars do not currently sync up and we're working on a new solution for forum avatars. I hope to have more details on that soon, but we're still working on the technical side of that.
    Robot Entertainment | Community Manager
  • Thank you for the reply, Harmonia. I look forward to it and I'll look into the Orcs After Dark stream to see what else I may have missed. I hope you passed on the fact that I do really enjoy what the game has become, because that's important to me, as well. I appreciate the feedback.
  • I absolutely love everyone over at Robot, keep up the great work!
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