Sabotage Matchmaking

1235»

Comments

  • ShadeDevShadeDev Member, Robot Entertainment, Early Access, Apprentice Founder, Featured Developer
    Axony said:
    U don't get the point.

    They put up 3-4 of them, keep 1 minion alive, and kite it over and over those 4.
    they facetank the minion until 1 drops low and then the next person takes the aggro.

    Now we use basic math:
    4 Coin generators
    1 repair tool to reactivate them

    It's like having a "Penguin" giving him the rank of "Admiral" and giving him "13" soldiers and 2 more people of a guild...
    Have you seen this happen?  Because it's not actually possible.  You can't reset the coin generator.
    Doug Houserman
    Robot Entertainment | Lead Balance Designer
  • SpectreRoseSpectreRose Member
    edited June 18
    Periclum said:
    I don't know what kind of feedback I can give here, but I do know that I can give some information. I have a Level 80 account. Most of the traps I use are in the blue/purple zone. Yesterday, I was at Silver IV. Lost a match and found myself at Silver V. I'm going to call this my start point, since I do not recall playing any more after that demotion.

    Today, I played about 9 or 10 games of Sabotage. It did not matter which character I played as each and every single one of them were losses. What bothered me the most was the last one I was in. I was in a 3-man team against a 2-man team. I don't know how that happened, but whatever. I also notice the other team didn't use a single barricade. As stated above, that one was a loss, too. I have been demoted to Bronze I now and I will not play Sabotage again until the next patch.

    Before Patch 2.1, I used to have more balanced matches. Many of them went into Sudden Death. I used to have fun in this.
    This doesn't sound like a flaw with the Matchmaking system. It sounds like you're bad at this. Your three man team played an enemy who didn't use barricades, and LOST? I don't even know how that's possible. You should have been able to out-stall them easily.

    What, precisely, do you think was unbalanced in the matches you played?
    Then I am bad. I'm bad even though I can solo endless matches to L26. I'm bad because I have soloed everything below Rift Lord up to 5-stars. I'm just bad. I get it. Thank you for your input. I should quit now. Thank you for your omniscient insight.
    Post edited by SpectreRose on
  • PericlumPericlum Member
    Then I am bad. I'm bad even though I can solo endless matches to L26. I'm bad because I have soloed everything below Rift Lord up to 5-stars. I'm just bad. I get it. Thank you for your input. I should quit now. Thank you for your omniscient insight.
    Sabotage and soloing Endless maps utilize entirely different skillsets.

    Sabotage requires TEAMWORK, not solo play. You and your team need to coordinate consumable usage, barricading strategies, how/when to build the more niche traps like BGH or Wells, etc.. You even use different heroes. Ivy is god-tier in Sabotage, and (correct me if I'm wrong here) slightly below-average when it comes to Endless. Oziel is great in Endless, and awful in Sabotage due to the lack of CC and not having any chance to build up Souls.

    If you're consistently losing matches, that doesn't indicate the Matchmaking system is flawed. One bad matchup, sure. Even two. But ten consecutive losses? There's something else at fault here. Basic probabilities say you didn't get ten matches against Diamond/Platinum players. There just aren't enough of them for that to be the case. And, even if you DID, you can still overpower them with good consumables (Trap Disable Staff, Swiftyhooves, TNT Archers, etc.). It doesn't matter how good their traps are if they aren't going off.

    I'm totally willing to admit the matchmaker has some flaws (which are being addressed in less than 48 hours, btw), but I don't think that's the sole cause of your losing streak (especially given you were in a premade party, and therefore immune to "random spamming Ice Shards that you cannot sell").
  • I was not in a premade party (nor did I imply that I was). Doesn't matter anyhow. Thank you for your wonderful dissection of everything you weren't around for. I've uninstalled and I no longer see any reason to come back.
  • PericlumPericlum Member
    I was not in a premade party (nor did I imply that I was). Doesn't matter anyhow. Thank you for your wonderful dissection of everything you weren't around for. I've uninstalled and I no longer see any reason to come back.
    My bad. Assumed "party of 3" meant "premade party of three." You lost a 3v2?

    Again, though, this is the matchmaking system working correctly. You lost matches, so it deranked you. The idea is that eventually, you'll hit players who are at your skill level, and be able to win some of your matches. Win lots, and it moves you up so you're still challenged.
  • AxonyAxony Member
    ShadeDev said:
    Axony said:
    U don't get the point.

    They put up 3-4 of them, keep 1 minion alive, and kite it over and over those 4.
    they facetank the minion until 1 drops low and then the next person takes the aggro.

    Now we use basic math:
    4 Coin generators
    1 repair tool to reactivate them

    It's like having a "Penguin" giving him the rank of "Admiral" and giving him "13" soldiers and 2 more people of a guild...
    Have you seen this happen?  Because it's not actually possible.  You can't reset the coin generator.
    Sorry my bad, you have to wait like 20sec until the generator resets automatically during a wave
  • ShadeDevShadeDev Member, Robot Entertainment, Early Access, Apprentice Founder, Featured Developer
    Axony said:
    ShadeDev said:
    Axony said:
    U don't get the point.

    They put up 3-4 of them, keep 1 minion alive, and kite it over and over those 4.
    they facetank the minion until 1 drops low and then the next person takes the aggro.

    Now we use basic math:
    4 Coin generators
    1 repair tool to reactivate them

    It's like having a "Penguin" giving him the rank of "Admiral" and giving him "13" soldiers and 2 more people of a guild...
    Have you seen this happen?  Because it's not actually possible.  You can't reset the coin generator.
    Sorry my bad, you have to wait like 20sec until the generator resets automatically during a wave
    50 seconds. 

    AND, in 2.2, it restarts with the wave instead.
    Doug Houserman
    Robot Entertainment | Lead Balance Designer
  • SorohendiSorohendi Member
    edited November 19
    Perhaps the only true fair approach to the ranking system would be to look to the football leagues. Have teams or players in certain leagues. Each league would have a special time slot for the day. 1-2 pm and 1-2am for certain leagues as an example. I'm sure there's a better way then time slots that I can't think of at them moment. But players in certain leagues can only play with players in same league. We could have 100-200 players in a league or more. Players that don't play sabotage for 2 weeks, lose rank and go out of league. They could regain their league presence by playing a games. A similar system is in fifa games, except there you play with teams out of your league. This would for example eliminate high rank and low rank pairing together etc. And when you reach the top league the top 20 could only play top league games on Sundays and Saturdays so players with an active work week won't be excluded. Those top rank players could enter a daily league or daily or even hourly cup games, where there would be a knockout phase. Winner could get a chest or some stuff like that. 

    Now I'm just spitballin' here and I'm sure there are faults to my idea, but maybee this is a basis for some innovating ideas.

    I for one have stopped playing sabotage for the lack of a steady 3pl group to play with and going into random games is just too much risk of having some saboteur on my side messing up the game, strange how there are more players that ruin sabotage then survival. One might (and has) come to the conclusion that the other team is queuing up with a 4th non team member just to be a saboteur for the random side. And since I have all traps at t7 and got everything done that can be done and sabotage was the only thing left to do in the game. I log in once a day waiting to get the daily gold to buy some vanity and hoping that there will be something new waiting for me in game. The new maps were nice, but that was a few days worth, unfortunately. Sometimes I go in for a combo game, but that's not really my forte and it gets a bit boring to do after a couple of go's.
  • Personally I don't mind getting matched with low lvls, it scales down minion health to balance the game, and you get to improve the community by coaching new players. Its never going to be perfect, but with only about 350 pple online at peak time and many not playing sabotage, it really isn't feasible to separate out lvls for sabotage. And really, its unfair to low lvls as well to never get to play with higher lvls and learn from them.
  • SorohendiSorohendi Member
    edited November 22
    @ElaMonster Usually I don't mind either, having a low lvl player on my team. But when I get game after game with low lvl on my team and my opponents are all high lvl then the game isn't really fair in view of coin generation, barricade tier and quality of physics traps. And many of the players I get matched with in random don't even have their traps sellable, and then they place traps where most players who have played the game place barricades. It just smashes my rank and makes the game lost sometimes before it begins.

    And as far as coaching new players, that's fine if you party with them. But not a lot can be coached in random games where you usually don't see the same player on your side more then a few games if not only just the one.
  • @Sorohendi I actually usually coach randoms not in pre-made teams (though I do both). I just be nice to the randoms and explain the strategy and most people are eager to participate in learning and getting better. Only on extremely rare occasions, perhaps 1/100 do I meet someone who wont make their traps sell-able if you tell them how to do it. It takes a bit more time, but building the player base is worth it, and if they are low lvl and I am playing against high rank I either don't lose rank at all or possibly 1 or 2 places. Losing positions in rank is irrelevant to begin with, because rank is meaningless in regards to skill. It is a bad calculation system (imo) and reduces peoples willingness to play.

    Sorohendi said:
    It just smashes my rank and makes the game lost sometimes before it begins.
    Minion health is reduced when people are lower level, note how some people accuse matching with low levels as "cheating" to gain rank. If you are the highest tier trap bringer, then place the cades with your phd, and have them build the killbox. Farm some coin, and if you reach trap cap, politely upgrade their lower tier traps to your traps and you actually have an advantage.
  • Well, I played about 10-15 games a day for about a month, until 10-15 days ago and most of the low lvl players I played with did not even reply when I asked them to make their traps sellable. Even if I told them step, by step how to do it. Maybe 20-30% were eager to follow the lead of the high lvl players. And when I lost with low lvl in my team I was falling 20-50 even a 100 spots down in ranking. Despite being with low lvl's. Maybe you have been extremely lucky with the find match option, but most players I've played with have the same story as I do.
  • :P Perhaps I am just lucky, I do identify as a magical unicorn :0. Or maybe all my luck is used in sabo and not in chaos since I always get the worst mods and no one wants to play them with me cause if I play their key they get the bad mods too :0
  • I think it comes down to attitude too. I find people are more willing to work with you if you are polite about saying hi and explaining things to them instead of immediately coming off strongly. Not sure how you do it, but a few smiles and <3's never hurts :P
1235»
Sign In or Register to comment.