USELESS TRAPS : Life and mana traps the most worthless traps

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Comments

  • LemartesLemartes Member, Early Access, Apprentice Founder
    Buff traps are awesome in groups.

    Very tough to fit in solo play.

    Mana is pretty sweet when paired with 2 damage trinkets, lets you spam all abilities pretty much non-stop.
  • KaXaSAKaXaSA Member, Early Access
    IMO they are really bland/uninteresting "traps", same for the other ones that buff your damage/defense.

    It always feels really bad to sacrifice a trap slot for these "traps", imo they should just rework them and give separated/extra slots just for them.

  • KaXaSA said:
    IMO they are really bland/uninteresting "traps", same for the other ones that buff your damage/defense.

    It always feels really bad to sacrifice a trap slot for these "traps", imo they should just rework them and give separated/extra slots just for them.

    I agree with that.   There's the case to be made that with 3 players, you can afford to have one guy be "the goat" and take one for the team by bringing those traps, but that doesn't make it any better when you are that guy (or don't have someone to be that guy).

    Additionally, I suggest the shield trap should last until it has absorbed all the damage that it can, it shouldn't time out.  If my team could "suit up" in advance, it'd suck significantly less  :)
  • KaXaSAKaXaSA Member, Early Access
    edited June 20
    Honestly, I would simply remove all these "traps" from the game (Damage & Defense Powerups / Healing & Mana Well), give the players another slot for gears (2 to 3 slots) buff mage's clover, mage's picnic and vegetable of mending (lower cooldown, increase regeneration effects/duration) and call it a day.




  • ProtoZealottProtoZealott Member, Early Access
    edited June 20
    I actually really like the mana well after I got use to it. Although I only really use it on characters like Zoey or Ivy. The trick is to place it mid wave, get the benefit, then sell it for full value. It opens up a trinket slot, and I don't Have to sell it if an ally would benefit from it too. The damage powerup and health wells are also great when playing with lowbies, and if legit hard content ever comes out they'll be extremely powerful in it.

    So I'd say the game is better off with them, than without them, however the defense powerup on the other hand is rather questionable at best. It has potential in Sabotage's Sudden Death/Future Content with a character like Bloodspike stacking defense and damage resist (I've been able to tank pretty deep into heavy hitting mobs with this), but that's extremely edge case.
  • Why would you trade a trap slot for a trinket slot?

    The only time I've felt that compulsion was when I first got Hogarth and his horribly slow speed had me considering using the speed trap instead of the teleportation ring.  Ofc now I've learned to compensate for the sluggishness without either, at least in Survival, but I almost succumbed lol.

    ...speed trap might be the most worthless trap.  Why does it have a cooldown at all, why not work all the time, like the level-integrated pads or the Stablehand's aura (plz don't gimp).
  • YeldarbYeldarb Member, Early Access
    edited June 20

    Mana Well and Healing Well are amazing, especially Mana Well.  Do you like spamming abilities without a care in the world? What is that, you run out of mana? Not any more kiddos!  You got Mana Well on your side.  Mana Well makes ability users dreams come true.

    Shield Powerup not the best you say.  I say you madmen!  Do you enjoy dying in Overtime?  If so, ignore me.  If not, Shield Powerup saves lives!  You getting sniped by archers with "homing" arrows?  Not today kids!  With this simple little shield, you can survive even the most accurate of shots.  What was that?  The big meanie bo beanie orc oronie hitting you with his big club and it leaves a fierce mark that only mamma kisses can heal?  Well no need to fear lads, the liquid in this powerup contains 100% genuine mamma kisses.  You don't need to worry about no mean orc no more!

    On a serious note, these traps are fantastic.  I enjoy being the support/utility person.  I don't understand why people think it's boring.  You get such a stronger degree of control on how matches are played compared to people with pure trap loadouts (especially so in Sabotage).  You are the one dropping barricades and controlling how the minions will path.  You are the strongest factor in determining if a kill box is effective or not.  You are also the only player who has to micromanage traps (except for Boulderchute and Icicle Impaler) because if a suicidal kobold comes along you will be the one replacing that barricade.

    With the up and coming patch tomorrow, Health and Mana siphons are getting nerfed by 50% which in my opinion will make Mana Well and Healing Well even more desirable.  Also Chaos Trials come out tomorrow, in those trials you will have a chance to have the Poison spell on you for the entire match or even the Mana Drain spell.  Mana Well and Healing Well looking even more desirable now I bet, especially if you plan to make it to the far reaches of Chaos Trial (the 12th tier).

    I haven't tried much of the Powerup Damage trap but when that baby hits level 7 (and boy oh boy is it close) I am going to play around with it.  It may not be the best thing ever, but if you have multiple lanes funneling into a singular kill box what can go wrong with 20% more hero damage?  I think this game has a more focus on heroes than traps, not saying that traps are lacking behind but look at the heroes.  They are all flavorful, cool, fun and play differently from one another.  Why wouldn't you want something on your loadout that makes heroes more hero-ee?

    I understand why people favor the trap loadout more than the utility counterpart.  I too enjoy getting those sick combos, giving orcs the gift of flight, or literally seeing minions explode before your eyes in a grand display of gore confetti; however, these utility traps are great and can help you get more enjoyment playing with your heroes.  An example would be Smolder, she is very mana dependent and it felt very constricting being forced to decide if I should Dragon's Breath or Heart of Flame.  It wasn't that enjoyable, but with Mana Well I don't have to worry about that at all!  I just spam all her abilities, always on fire, always breathing fire, always at full Mana.  It's as if someone activated the God Mode cheat code.

    You Have to Yell Darb to get Yeldarb
  • AxonyAxony Member
    The DMG/DEF PowerUp and Mana/HP wells are from the time when siege was a thing.
    The def and dmg were nce as defender when you got attack by minions and heroes but an attack only lastet for like 30sec.
    The Mana and HP Wells were nice as attacker to refresh while you were waiting for the next spawn.

    Now they don't really have a purpose anymore (still like to bring the mana well on Bloodspike) but you are limited in Traps anyway and it's cheaper to bring a Cygnus for his rift.
  • BragdrasBragdras Member, Master Founder, Early Access
    They mostly exist as fodder traps that nobody cares about, like trash stuff in card games.

  • AxonyAxony Member
    Like Overload and Quarter Pounder?
  • HypovolemicHypovolemic Member
    edited June 20
    Axony said:
    Like Overload and Quarter Pounder?
    Try Quarter Pounder at a choke point where you can place Tundra's wall. It's an underrated trap.

    Edit:  Regarding buff traps, I'd probably be more likely to use them if they were lower costed and the lower cost balanced by making them limited placement traps. For example:
    • Damage/Shield Powerups: 500 coin, limit 3
    • Healing/Mana Well: 300 coin, limit 3
    And, as already mentioned, the shield duration was more appropriate to PvE.

    As limited placement traps, it might even make sense to give a hero an affinity for them. For example, Healing/Mana Wells placed by Ivy grant a damage or shield power up as well. (Making her trap affinity two buffs from one trap.)
  • KaXaSAKaXaSA Member, Early Access
    edited June 20
    vrmlbasic said:
    Why would you trade a trap slot for a trinket slot?
    I would not, I would trade all these traps: Healing Well, Mana Well, Defense Powerup and Damage Powerup for an extra trinket (Gear) slot. -you can include the speed boost trap there too, I forgot about it- The number of traps slots would remain the same.
  • xombobxombob Member
    Never really used those wells either myself, except in the beginning when I thought they might be helpful but now Ive noticed Ive never needed them in any situation.

    Maybe if they didnt take up any trap slot space they might be more commonly used? But then you might have to limit their number to prevent whole map being filled by dobbin or something :).

    But I do agree with some of the comments here saying they might become much more handy now that Chaos Trials is out. (and maybe they are useful on endless too, havent done that much yet because rewards suck)
  • It would be cool if those traps were part of maps, like the environmental traps. They could be always active, or you could pay to activate one. This way you can choose to use them or not, and they don't use any trap slot. Plus, it would add a fun new interaction on maps. I think people would like them more this way. But that's basically 5 less traps in the pool, when new traps don't exactly rain on us on a regular basis.
  • Do you like spamming abilities without a care in the world? What is that, you run out of mana? Not any more kiddos!  You got Mana Well on your side.  Mana Well makes ability users dreams come true.

    I can do that without the mana trap.   Perhaps if the mana trap's regen weren't canceled by taking damage...that definitely feels like a legacy from Siege.

    it's cheaper to bring a Cygnus for his rift.
    Yep...but don't let the word get out, wouldn't want to see Cygnus get the gimp that Dobbin got;  he's already suffering from Old, after all ;)

  • pre patch it was overload

    after the patch, its decoy again?!?  idk how that happened, but it somehow got even worse.  Previously its only use was if you could put a revenge rune in it and kill a 50,000 hp giant in 1 hit.  Now that revenge rune got nerfed, decoy does too.  Its still functionally sh1t and the coin during endless isnt an issue.  During the survival waves, the cost reduction makes it enticing, but just save for a 500 coin tar trap and its exponentially better.  There isnt a cost value low enough to make decoy worth it in its current form, unless you give me coin to place it and take up a loadout slot.  I MIGHT use it then.
  • xombobxombob Member
    Today on Chaos Trials we got a modifier where the camera stops working when our health drops below 50% (cant move your view), so I suddenly got a big urge to use those Health Wells. The health trinket simply wasnt recharging fast enough.

    So, I guess it might become useful now after all?
  • Today on Chaos Trials we got a modifier where the camera stops working when our health drops below 50%

    That doesn't sound like a very fun modifier.

    If all the buff traps lost their Siege-legacy gimps (eg:shield times out, damage stops mana regen dead in its tracks), maybe.   Being strong-armed into using a trap?  I'm not too keen on that prospect,  make me want to use the trap on its own merits plz.



  • vrmlbasic said:
    Today on Chaos Trials we got a modifier where the camera stops working when our health drops below 50%

    That doesn't sound like a very fun modifier.

    If all the buff traps lost their Siege-legacy gimps (eg:shield times out, damage stops mana regen dead in its tracks), maybe.   Being strong-armed into using a trap?  I'm not too keen on that prospect,  make me want to use the trap on its own merits plz.

    I was using healing well too there was quite a few buffs it probably won us the match. There was camera stops working, no health drops, tons of fire mages and random knockback.

    I don't know any tactic to try and avoid constant death in that situation without the use of wells.
  • KjubyKjuby Member
    Wells are useless cuz there are not enough trap slots. Increase trap slots number (F1-F12 keyboard) and wells will be useable.
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