Patch 2.2 Sabotage Feedback

ShadeDevShadeDev Member, Robot Entertainment, Early Access, Apprentice Founder, Featured Developer
edited July 2017 in General Discussion
Hey guys,

As you know, we made a TON of changes to Sabotage in patch 2.2 (patch notes).  I'm really glad to see the positive reception so far, but I would like to hear everyone's feedback on a few key points:
  • Are matches feeling closer?
  • Are you feeling more comebacks?
  • What is your number one gripe?  (Let's keep this constructive, but be honest)

Thanks!
Doug Houserman
Robot Entertainment | Lead Balance Designer
Post edited by ShadeDev on

Comments

  • terrysongcnterrysongcn Member
    edited June 2017
    It felt like no obvious changes. except that there maybe one more glitch that sometimes the game confuses winners and losers? Our team was pretty sure we didn't leak anything and there was no stealth spell cast by opponent teams (we counted that). Opponent team is close to lose in sudden death, and our team ended up losing that game for no reason.

    PS: it also couldn't be the physic traps, we were pretty careful about that and none of the physic traps had the angle towards the rift. So it couldn't be minions penetrating walls even if that still exists
  • DominoEDominoE Member
    edited June 2017
    Since chests aren't being held hostage and forcing me into the mode anymore, I've only played Sabotage a few matches since the patch, but matches still feel incredibly one-sided. All but one of my games were either a victory/loss with the winning team still at 25/25 RP, or sudden deaths. But the latter feel closer and more "sudden" now that minions are harder to control and death is a lot more prevalent. I also didn't get a HUGE level gap between myself and my teammates in any of my post-2.2 matches like I often had been, so it at least feels more -theoretically- balanced. Later waves aren't super easy anymore, which is good.

    I think the spells (and the usage of them) matter more than anything in regards to close matches and comeback possibilities. The game revolves around barricade placement and double-barricading or what I like to call "bait-icading" so unless the disadvantaged team draws a lot of sappers with minion stealth, or the new immolation staff, there isn't much they can do. 12 extra runners or a few giants added into the winning team's killbox isn't going to accomplish anything, and even fire ogres and grenadier minions can only deal minimal damage to the barricades in the killbox of a team with any level of coordination before they're dealt with.

    Edit: Played a bit more now. Still getting regularly matched up against premades when solo queueing.
    Post edited by DominoE on
  • Waves 1-3 on orcli-la felt a bit tougher which was welcomed. Other team let a few leak early on and we held pretty easily(would probably be easier now that we know exactly how minion's will path so we can setup more efficiently). Wave 7 we had an important cade die and everything bypassed our kill box . We straight up held and killed everything on the stairs with one v.tar, ivy knocking back along with the boulder on the map. We probably should have lost the match but we had ivy. Didn't loose a single rift point and only ivy blew her unchained . Both me on Cygnus and yeldarb on tundra did not unchain.  

    Also played a 2v2 on falling folly. Still seemed pretty easy. Finished 25-0 on wave 5. Other team seemed to give up because they basically leaked a few minion's each wave. 
    Twitch.tv/phattony99
  • YeldarbYeldarb Member, Early Access
    edited June 2017

    I am going to undermine phattony here but I think we won that match on Orcri-La only because the enemy team did not coordinate when an opening for a comeback arose.  I can say for a fact there was no coordination.  They didn't have summoned minions in the mix of the wave we fought off they didn't even cast spells until after we managed the leak.  Phattony said everything bypassed our killbox which isn't true, only two-thirds did.  Middle right spawn point was still being funneled correctly.  I think if a leak does occur and the entire team comes together to hold off the oncoming wave with no interaction from the enemy team then it's okay.  A problem would occur if we were able to hold that off with the enemy team using ability disable, long cool down, stun, dance spells, etc; the enemy team doing something more.

    I agree with DominoE on cards.  Minion cards are far more important early game than late game, unless it's a Swifty or Gaiden in overtime.  Spell cards don't really shine until certain points of the match, such as a new spawn point where there may not be enough traps to hold it off or in sudden death.  In general, spell cards definitely outshine minion cards.

    Post edited by Yeldarb on
    You Have to Yell Darb to get Yeldarb
  • VarthftwVarthftw Member
    edited June 2017
    ShadeDev said:
    Hey guys,

    As you know, we made a TON of changes to Sabotage in patch 2.2 (patch notes).  I'm really glad to see the positive reception so far, but I would like to hear everyone's feedback on a few key points:
    • Are matches feeling closer?
    • Are you feeling more comebacks?
    • What is your number one gripe?  (Let's keep this constructive, but be honest)

    Thanks!
    There is no difference imho. matches are the same always going to sudden death and having tundra ivy stall for days. I am still fighting against groups of players when I solo queue. overall not much has changed. You Nerfing ivys root and boosting her healing is allowing her to stay at full mana for sudden death and just spam knockback, if anything she is better with that. really disliking sabotage even more after this patch because it feels like nothing has honestly changed. Its either I go against a premade and see tundra ivy cyngus or join a 2v2 game and have people leave the queue so it replaces me with another queue. Nothing feels different ivy feels stronger and damage means absolutely useless still in sudden death. I cant play my favorite high damage heroes still because they will auto lose against any team with an ivy (like midnight) in sudden death. Doesn't feel good doing 600k+ hero and trap damage and losing to ivy tundra teams with less damage. 

    I really just ask for one thing and that is a queue with only random solo queues and leave team queues a separate thing please. If that is too much to ask for then maybe a unranked sabotage mode where I can play the damage heroes I enjoy and not have to play to win sudden death with certain heroes every game

    Post edited by Varthftw on
  • i don't see any changes. the leaderboard wasn't wiped and its full of fake scores. "tournament" teams got a high rank and easy chests by playing against tier 1 "random" players.
  • xmasuoxmasuo Member
    It seems like the matchmaking system is not working too well right now. I think this game mode there should be a minimum level of joining, since having low level player on either of the team significantly lowers the win rate of that team.
  • The matchmaking is smarter now, but the actual matches aren't any better because a lot of people are playing chaos trials instead. 
  • The worst part of sabotage is still having to solo queue against teams, needs to be removed and upper rankings are meaningless until it is. 

    The minimum level is a good start but still too low IMO 

    Sudden death definitely ends a lot quicker now, although the same heroes still seem to be best. I did notice one game where I can only assume they were glitching out pathing on banquet hall because as Max and Dobbin they were able to get everything looped back and forth in the dining hall endlessly and handily won against my team of ivy/blackpaw. That is not really related i guess =P. 

    Overall good teams still make it to sudden death every time.

  • AxonyAxony Member
    It feels alot better now.
    i was only able to hold Ocri-La as Ivy for 10minutes solo in Sudden Death.

    so the only way to reduce the endless stalling sudden death is to sneak a point in the 1st or 2nd wave.
  • Stopsight said:
    Sudden death definitely ends a lot quicker now, although the same heroes still seem to be best. I did notice one game where I can only assume they were glitching out pathing on banquet hall because as Max and Dobbin they were able to get everything looped back and forth in the dining hall endlessly and handily won against my team of ivy/blackpaw. That is not really related i guess =P.
    Nope, that's not a glitch. You can do that. Or, could pre-patch. I assume it's still doable, albeit not as perfectly, just due to the map layout.
  • Periclum said:
    Stopsight said:
    Sudden death definitely ends a lot quicker now, although the same heroes still seem to be best. I did notice one game where I can only assume they were glitching out pathing on banquet hall because as Max and Dobbin they were able to get everything looped back and forth in the dining hall endlessly and handily won against my team of ivy/blackpaw. That is not really related i guess =P.
    Nope, that's not a glitch. You can do that. Or, could pre-patch. I assume it's still doable, albeit not as perfectly, just due to the map layout.
    the fact that they can do that seems like it is a glitch that they are exploiting.
  • Stopsight said:
    Periclum said:
    Stopsight said:
    Sudden death definitely ends a lot quicker now, although the same heroes still seem to be best. I did notice one game where I can only assume they were glitching out pathing on banquet hall because as Max and Dobbin they were able to get everything looped back and forth in the dining hall endlessly and handily won against my team of ivy/blackpaw. That is not really related i guess =P.
    Nope, that's not a glitch. You can do that. Or, could pre-patch. I assume it's still doable, albeit not as perfectly, just due to the map layout.
    the fact that they can do that seems like it is a glitch that they are exploiting.
    My assumption is that you're wrong. They were stalling all the small minions, yes, and killing the big ones. This forum is full of people who don't understand how things work, and/or misread the enemy map. We went weeks with people whining about infinite stall+power generator resets in early waves, and even Shade saying "That is not possible" didn't stop them.
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