Chaos Trials Feedback

ShadeDevShadeDev Member, Robot Entertainment, Early Access, Apprentice Founder, Featured Developer
edited July 2017 in General Discussion
Hey guys,

In patch 2.2, we added the new exciting mode: Chaos Trials.  I'm really glad to see the positive reception so far, but I would like to hear everyone's feedback on a few key points:
  • What tier are you reaching?  Does this feel appropriate?
  • Which modifiers are fun?  Which modifiers are unfun?
  • How do the rewards feel?
  • How do the scores feel?

Thanks!
Doug Houserman
Robot Entertainment | Lead Balance Designer
Post edited by ShadeDev on
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Comments

  • terrysongcnterrysongcn Member
    edited June 2017
    • What tier are you reaching?  Does this feel appropriate?
    T12, too easy

    • Which modifiers are fun?  Which modifiers are unfun?
    haven't played enough to tell
    • How do the rewards feel?
    decent
    • How do the scores feel?
    ridiculous, why even design a leaderboard when the score you get is based on luck? the top of the leaderboard does not mean the player is good or skillful, but rather lucky enough to not get modifiers that affects combo.


    one constructive feedback:

    Modifiers persist through upgrading, this feels boring after 3 or 4 games playing the same modifiers again and again. Why not make modifiers randomly chosen every time the key upgrades?
  • BartanBartan Member
    I've personally found it rather fun so far, until I got a certain few modifiers. Then I started losing sleep over how I was going to get around them ^^; Don't get me wrong, I love how this mode really makes you think about what to do/what can you do. And it really does bring a lot of value to other traps you have saved up (upgraded or not). However, there's a few that just seem to be a little too harsh.

    The one's I've run into personally are:

    No Go-Breaks - It's already been said and discussed before, and it was the first time I really had to stress on what I was going to do. Honestly, it was a little fun when I first did it on the Baths, already knowing what I was going to place down to begin with (old man Cygnus never ran so fast to that gate, I'm telling you). However, what really got me was on much bigger levels, and loading in. The loading part might not be an issue with people who have up to date computers (mine just recently died about a week ago and had to downgrade for a while), so those first few seconds are just my computer loading up the map itself.

    I understand that this is more of a personal/performance issue, but it has almost forced me to use someone like Midnight to just bolt for the gate to start getting things down. At least those gates give us a few seconds to get things down (and the adrenaline rush to do so is rather thrilling at times), it can really cause problems on the much bigger maps that require some planning. For most of my maps, I've had to go back into Survival to just plan out what my actions were, almost practice them a couple of times before really trying the Chaos run. Even then...

    Regardless, my solution would be (if possible) to allow the very first Go-Break to start the entire run, but disable the breaks in between. Or even just give us 30 seconds in the beginning to set things up from scratch. I think it would solve most of the problems with this gambit, and allow random groups time to converse if needed.


    Second Modifier I ran into problems with is Expensive Floor Traps. Don't get me wrong, it's a brilliant mod and really makes you think. I just believe that x2 or x3 (especially stacked with some other Price Based Mods: i.e. Expensive Barricades) is a bit too much. Even with my highest discounts, a single GWB is about 2.5k. You're basically playing the level with either half (or worse) coin, or 'No-Cading' which isn't really an option in some levels.

    I do understand that Chaos Trials are not actually made to be beaten up to 15, though I do have a hard time keeping that in mind when I first see these mods for the first time. So, my issue isn't necessarily how these gambits halt your "progress" with the key. But to get these mods early on almost ruins the entire key. Though, I will add that getting this mod has made me use the Overload Trap more often, and it does make up for some interesting challenges, it's just too much to really recover from. Kinda like getting your ankle sprained before a race: Can you still run it? Yes, but is it ever just painful to do so.

    My solution? I was thinking maybe just going in intervals of either +25% or +50% price increases. And perhaps not allowing them to stack on top of another (though, using the least beneficial one for the players). I just came up with this one while writing, so I haven't been able to give it much thought yet. But it would at least still make the gambit fun, yet challenging. Rather than giving the mindset of "Whelp, can't use floor traps any longer." Even if it was just reduced for Floor traps, because it's a very valuable space/advantage that the players are given against the Unchained/Order. Though we can manage outside of just floor traps, the game becomes significantly harder to do so. Though, perhaps even just separating Floor Traps and Barricades might be enough.


    I was half thinking about one other thing, but it might be a bit overpowered. The idea was that, like the daily missions we now have: we could re-roll one mod per key level. So if you do get something rather crippling, you only need to get through one level of it instead of nearly discarding an entire key. Again, not really sure if it would be giving the players too much control over the mode, but it was just something that came to mind during my runs.

    I hope this helps, Shade <3 I'm loving the content you guys have been putting out so far!
    Power Is Not The Same As Strength
  • DominoEDominoE Member
    edited June 2017
    I reached T11 on my first key before I flopped. Had to get into a group because I got screwed in solo at about T4 or T5. I didn't start getting -completely- horrible mods until about T7, so I felt a little lucky and in the end, yes, I was satisfied with how far I made it.

    I can't imagine some of these mods won't be fine-tuned. Some mods hardly even matter or aren't noticeable in the slightest, while others can completely screw you over early on if you're unlucky with what mods get selected. Rift point loss on death + 1 rift point only is a prime example, since death is absolutely unavoidable in the higher tiers when your account level is appropriate. No go breaks and expensive barricades is another. Seriously, we should at least get the initial build phase. It's not a go BREAK if it's not between the action. We should get at least a little time to plan.

    The rewards feel... okay, I guess? The chests are fine enough, could maybe do with an extra card draw every few tiers in that you make it. But why do I get ~90 skulls for doing 14 waves on Rift Lord? I don't count the skulls in the chests as compensation for this, they're the reward set aside for how challenging the matches are made from the actual modifiers, not the match itself and the time you put into it.

    I don't care about scores in the slightest, so I can't answer that. I'm here to play and have fun, not micromanage every move I make for maximum combo potential.


    As an aside: Minion scaling could be tuned down a bit. If nothing else, their damage, at the very least. Ivy is still a must-have in high tiers, and people are doing exactly what they do in endless, Viscous tar and traps with knockback. Except now, melee heroes are even less viable. I feel like I'm just hacking away at a tree with a butterknife when I play as one at Rift Lord T10+, a tree that can instantly kill me just by looking at me. And I'm account level 94 with damage resistance traits.

    Maybe let us spend a life to reroll some or all of the mods, too? Because like I mentioned earlier, some of them are just downright mean.
    Post edited by DominoE on
  • OrbitBOrbitB Member
    Thank you for posting this, because I really wanted to share my opinion about this new game mode.

    At first, I have to say, that I was really hyped for this new update. Enjoyed the first few games a lot, but then the game became boring really quick and today was probably the last day I even touched the game mode. There are several factors that lead to this decision. First of all, obtaining a key by playing is made way to easy and therefore there is no real feeling of accomplishment, (that should be there) once you got one.
    That alone would be no reason to dislike the new game mode though. However one of the main reasons , why I don`t enjoy it at all, is, that it is waaaay too easy. The first time the new game mode gets interesting at all is, when you get above the 10th level of a key. Below that it`s just simple and boring grinding, without any feeling of accomplishment. Problem with that is, you will have to play 9 games (if you don`t fail), to reach the 10th level and that takes a really long time to accomplish.
    The only positive thing I can say about the game mode is, that the amount of skulls and chests you get by playing it, is satisfying.

    To sum it up, the new game mode in the update was a huge disappointment to me and I hope that the developers will work on fixing it, because like 90% of the people I asked (should meintion, that they were all above lv80) said, that they find it really boring and to them it was a huge let down as well. I mean lets be honest, playing the new game mode, is just like playing survival games with a few, sometimes annoying, sometimes funny extras.
    I do understand, that the main player base of the game consists of mainly low to mid level players and it`s more profitable to entertain them in the first place, but it was the high level players, who were there for a long time and will probably continue playing this game. Therefore not caring about them would, in my opinion, be a huge mistake by the developers. If I may suggest a solution: make a game mode, or change the already existing ones, so the high level players will have a challenge as well, or they might leave the game, because it really is the challenge for high level players, that this game lacks so much.
    Details worth mentioning: I`m lv 92 and have the most important traps on tier 7.

    Thanks for letting me share my opinion.

  • So far, I really like that mode. I was able to reach tier 8 I think and I feel like I could have achieved more and that I deserved that because I threw two lifes away early. Definitely feels appropiate.

    I definitely liked armor modifiers because I tried diferent tactics and had to adapt with heroes that seemed suboptimal for the map at first. Primary attack knockback was more annoying than interesting in my opinion while the bomb spell was a mix of frustrating, intense and rewarding, I definitely had fun trying to work around it and getting screwed by it. 
    I definitely liked both spawn protection for 20 seconds and the minion aggro drop and haste after 40 seconds, I'd just rather not have both at the same time. To be fair though, there is atleast a 20 second window in which they have no buffs. The permanent barricade wreckage was really cool and interesting.
    For me it was always a really big accomplishment to survive yet another round with bomb spells and irreplacable barricades.

    The rewards feel pretty good in my opinion, I've never earned so many skulls in such a short time. I may have just gotten lucky with my rewards, though. I got quite a few epics, some parts I really wanted and a new guardian.

    And the scores, I honestly don't really care about them. :D
  • Fried MickeyFried Mickey Member, Apprentice Founder
    I received a rift lord key with the patch, but I thought I should start off with apprentice level.  I paid 225 gold to purchase the apprentice key, loaded up a game and got rekted instantly.  The map was Banquet Hall with no go breaks and kobolds coming at you before you even knew what was happening ......not a good way to play your first chaos trails match.  In the first 2 games, I didn't even get a chance to lay a single trap.  I lost 3 games (too) quickly, wasted my gold and now I don't really care to play chaos trails until it gets a little more balanced out.  
    I'm level 91 with mostly level 7 traps........I should have been able to complete apprentice tier 1 map with my eyes closed and my hands tied behind my back.
  • Really like the new mode for now. I've reached Tier7, with two lives to spare. Some games have been very tense, which is refreshing: it's the first time in forever that I actually fear losing on some of those maps. Didn't think I would ever have problems clearing Banquet Hall, but boy was I close to losing.

    Now, some remarks I haven't seen mentioned yet:

    - Some modifiers get very boring after a while. I've had Primary knockback since the beginning, and I'm very tired of it by now.
    - Because of it, it would be good if some modifiers had lesser chance to appear in lower tiers. Some of them are very hardcore, and starting with them gets old fast.
    - Speaking of the primary knockback modifier, it would be nice to have a way of knowing when it's going to hit, even if it's just 1sec in advance. I've died stupidly with Max because of his fast ranged attack: you're firing at a group of minions, and before you've realized the spell is active, you're twenty miles behind, usually into the water. It's not a bad spell, but those deaths feel cheap and frustrating because of it.
    - Some spells seem a little too hardcore. For exemple, x3 cade price makes it almost impossible to win on some maps, like Eventide Fortress. I've actually made it myself (after one death, it's still very hard) but if had I had more modifiers at the time, there's no way I would have been able to make it. x2 price would still be pretty bad, I feel.
    - Some spells don't go well together. I feel like the devs tought "1 rift point + rift point loss on death" would be fun, but at higher tier it's basically impossible. The armor modifiers are really good and fun, but if you have all of them at the same time, then it's not strategy anymore, it's punishment.
    - Sometimes I didn't get any new modifier at a new tier, and sometime I've had two. It seems a bit inconsistent, imho.


    Appart from that, it's a very fun mode. I feel like it's a great answer to the lack of end-game content. I hope Robot will finally be able to direct most of their energy on more content now! We need regular influx of new maps, hero and stuff to loot. Also, seasonal and community events would be great, but I'm just getting ahead of myself. :)

    I'm just a bit sad it was released after I completed most of the game, since now I'll have to grind the old content just to find more keys; new player will simply acquire them while completing the Survival Content and will probably have a lot of them after completing Rift Lord and starting to get interested in this end-game mode.
  • There's a huge random factor when it comes to keys. Saying someone gets to t12 or t5 or whatnot doesn't make much of a difference without knowing which mods they dealt with on the way. You can get easy mods or mods that boost your character to make it less stressful, or you can get absolutely hammered down. I find this is an issue with the leaderboards as well.

    So far, my key was destroyed by the wave 5 issue on academy sewers, so I can't really give a good representation of the key until I get another one and that bug is fixed. But even so, my key felt very easy compared to what I've seen some streamers and friends playing.

    One issue I as a player who is not at absolute end game yet have, is that during a key game, I cannot get clear chests for the map. Even if I'm doing a map with a hero who hasn't done it in survival yet. Would be really nice to be able to get clears while enjoying the chaos modes as well. Going back and doing clears on apprentice when you are level 90+ is EXTREMELY tedius and seems to have very little reward. If you could get those clears while doing a chaos run, it would be more enjoyable I think.

    Just my current $0.02
  • So far enjoying the mode(will be playing more on stream tonight). One problem I see though is the scoring system. Only had time to complete first 3 levels of riftlord key and our score was already half of what people that completed a 12 had. And people that had completed a 5had a higher score than the team that completed a 12. This just goes to show it's just rng of what you get early and how well u maximize combos rather than how far you can make it. 
    Twitch.tv/phattony99
  • I love Chaos trails. Haven't lost my key yet. The rewards are great! But just some quick suggestions.

    I cannot play with no go breaks. By the time my computer loads me in it is already wave 2. 
    Here is a great solution. Once you get it, and spawn in you cannot move until everyone presses Z. Then everyone can have time to load in. Once everyone presses Z the game starts. This will be okay for everyone, since you are choosing your team mates.

    Another suggestion: Since people really don't like some modifiers, give them a chance to change them. If you get 5 stars in a round the owner of the key picks one modifier and reshuffles it. So it can be randomly picked again. This will give people a reason to 5 star the match and a way to avoid the most terrifying modifiers. 
    Keep it secret, Keep it safe.
    New? Here are some Game Tipz.
  • I love Chaos trails. Haven't lost my key yet. The rewards are great! But just some quick suggestions.

    I cannot play with no go breaks. By the time my computer loads me in it is already wave 2. 
    Here is a great solution. Once you get it, and spawn in you cannot move until everyone presses Z. Then everyone can have time to load in. Once everyone presses Z the game starts. This will be okay for everyone, since you are choosing your team mates.

    Another suggestion: Since people really don't like some modifiers, give them a chance to change them. If you get 5 stars in a round the owner of the key picks one modifier and reshuffles it. So it can be randomly picked again. This will give people a reason to 5 star the match and a way to avoid the most terrifying modifiers. 
    I can't say anything about your loading issues, because my PC is fast enough to load the game immediately, but your suggestion about reshuffeling some modifiers is good. I thought about it too: in my opinion, people should get the chance to reroll one modifier at a certain point of the progression. Maybe at Tier 4,8,12 etc..

    Otherwise, the sense of Chaos Trials is exactly that you must Deal with new situations. If you dont like your set of modifiers, its just bad luck in that case. I dont know if it would be fun if the players can reroll too much so that they can carry on playing as they always did in survival. Then, the game mode would lose its sense u know?

    But still, i like the idea of rerolling stuff. Just dont make it too strong.


    Another idea that i had is that players could get "modifier cards" threw chests. If you have the card "primary attack knockback" in your inventory  (at the workshop), you can ban a modifier from coming up, but only if the modifier isnt already active in your current trial. That would grant players the chsnce for a Tactical benefit: 
    For example if a player already has the modifiers fire and ice Resistance, he can ban something like lightning resistance from coming up so that he can be sure that he can use his lightning traps at least. In my opinion, that would be a great tactical option that would make Chaos trials even more interesting, because there would be more kind of a progression because you need to unlock the modifier bans before using. And also, players could be less frustrated if there are modifiers that they really hate (i hate the knockback stuff the most, for example) because they just ban them. Ofcourse the number of times you use it should be regulated and balanced, obviously.

    What do you guys think about this? 
  • One thing I forgot to mention about this mode.
    No stars. No par time. No par time!
    I know I always come back to this, but you can't imagine how happy I am playing without it. Being able to do killboxes far from the gates without having the sensation of "not doing it right" is fantastic. It really lets you focus on strategy and optimization instead of trying to rush a timer. I love it. :)
  • One thing I forgot to mention about this mode.
    No stars. No par time. No par time!
    I know I always come back to this, but you can't imagine how happy I am playing without it. Being able to do killboxes far from the gates without having the sensation of "not doing it right" is fantastic. It really lets you focus on strategy and optimization instead of trying to rush a timer. I love it. :)
    There is still par time
    you lose the time multiplier for score if you ignore the par time
  • ShadeDevShadeDev Member, Robot Entertainment, Early Access, Apprentice Founder, Featured Developer
    The modifiers have hidden values.  If you get two modifiers, it's because those are considered easy.

    One rift point OTOH, is considered very hard so it'll only appear alone or with other bonuses.
    Doug Houserman
    Robot Entertainment | Lead Balance Designer
  • In my opinion, the "3x more Unchained drops" is not really fun. Yes it may help getting unchained faster after strong waves, but it doesnt feel powerful to have this bonus. Better would be that the Unchained Mode gets longer or stronger. :) just my personal thoughts
  • What tier are you reaching?  Does this feel appropriate?
    We failed at map 9, on the one key I've played to its conclusion. That was 3 people on coms, with T6/7 traps. Eventually, the modifiers overwhelmed us. It's fairly challenging, albeit incredibly RNG-based. I'm on T8 of my own key now, which has no really problematic modifiers other than Expensive Barricades.

    Which modifiers are fun?  Which modifiers are unfun?
    "No Go Breaks" makes the game incredibly unfun. You can't even get traps up on some maps before the first wave is crashing on you. Frostbite starts you so far back (and had an unannounced pathing change this patch) that you can barely even make it to the bridge before the enemies are across it, let alone get up Flips. That wouldn't be so bad, but at T9, the enemies aren't scaled for a level one party. It's like jumping into wave 20 of Endless, but you have no traps, no Weavers, and no money. Ridiculous. You can't even power down an Orc without Debilitation Resonators, let alone a Giant.

    I'm also not a fan of "Gear Disable." Tundra is currently broken (fixed tomorrow, I saw), and I've heard people complain Temper doesn't work either (apparently he can't attack when enraged? I haven't verified this - don't want to lose lives to test theories). Removing the gear isn't a big deal, but the associated bugs are frustrating. I also really miss gear when "No Mana Drops" comes into effect. It forces us to either camp the rift, or bring Wells (easy with 3, hard with 2, impossible solo). I feel like those two modifiers maybe shouldn't be combined.

    Armour bonuses are annoying not because of the effects (which are easy enough to avoid, just don't pick certain heroes/traps), but because you still haven't explained what each point of armour DOES (seriously, is +50 armour "enemy takes 50% less damage?" Or, is it "enemy takes 50 LESS damage from each attack?") None of these terms are defined, so we don't know how important they are to build around. Example: Stinkeye does a great job slowing and killing runners. But, does the Arcane Armour drop his already pitiful ~130 damage a projectile to 80 damage? Or to 65? Or, does it have only a minor impact, and he'll still be a good pick because of it? Does the Dragon Lance debuff cancel out Arcane Armour entirely, or reduce it a bit? Does the Debilitation Resonator reduce ALL armour stats, or just some? Some basic documentation on what various hidden statistics and effects DO would be lovely. 
    I'm minorly irritated by "2x Epic/Unique Skill Cooldown." I'd appreciate it if you would list each hero's Epic and Unique skills in Hero Select. It's annoying to have to close the game out, swap to the Workshop, and then scan every hero to see which of their abilities is going to take forever to reset. It's especially annoying for heroes like Bloodspike that can reset an ability regardless of cooldown (T4 weaver for Maiming Blow), because lengthening THAT cooldown means nothing to him, but lengthening Stunning Execution is disasterous. Cygnus, Max, and heroes who don't necessarily rely on spamming a particular spell (or those that do) would also benefit from this change. I think the only one who wouldn't care is Smoulder, seeing as she only has one active with a cooldown.

    On the other hand, I LOVE "Expensive Barricades." We just had the most fun match I think I've ever played in OMDU trying to rig up the one-lane, one-killbox on Crogon Keep. Didn't get it going until wave 6, because we just couldn't afford it (even with Dobbin). So much fun. It's not a big deal on every map (Frostbite opens lanes so slowly, we didn't have a problem with it, and Academy Sewers doesn't really use barricades), but you're forced to think and plan a bit differently than you normally would. We cleared Highlands without a single barricade (only T5), using the money for traps instead. 4800 for a Great Wall and 2700 for a Single makes you VERY careful about bombers and Fire Ogres.

    I also like "Rush Timer." Gives you an incentive to go hit certain lanes early, take out enemies before they start running. After getting run over by Rift-Rushed, Rush-Timer Ogres, I started killing them before they got near the Rift. It's not so bad that you instantly fail, but potentially dangerous enough that you don't want to entirely ignore it. Perfect balance.

    "Additional [Minion]" per wave is inconsequential. Seriously, four Cyclops Mages? Not exactly quaking in my boots. Even "More Mercenaries" and "More Unstable Rifts" aren't too bad. Just set up a ton of BGH, and you can mostly ignore them. Only ones that HAVE annoyed me destroy barricades. It is not fun to have to clear Kamikaze Kobolds every 15 seconds. That alone makes some levels impossible to solo.

    How do the rewards feel?
    Excellent. Please do not nerf them. I'm finally getting trap cards again. I wouldn't say no to your adding a "every player should get at least one stack of non-gibs from the chest" condition, but I realize that's unlikely. I'll just keep buying Keys and hoping for Epic drops. Apparently they drop pretty frequently, but you get enough Gibs to fund the Keys themselves. Great pricing. I'm really happy with it.

    How do the scores feel?
    I don't care. At all. Though, I should note that cumulative scores are super weird with the drop in/drop out mechanism for Keys. I played a single level (T7) of a Key with someone in our guild, and jumped to slot 9 on the leaderboards. I didn't actually DO anything to earn that, he just wanted someone to play with. I don't really know what the solution is, whether it's ranking only the keyholder or doing it per-map, but as it stands the leaderboard is just wrong. I am terrible at the whole combo thing.
    Side-note
    I'd appreciate some explanation as to what each increased level on the key does to the mobs and/or heroes playing it. We noticed that we have a harder time killing enemies as time goes on, but is that because heroes do less damage? Or, do the mobs have more health? Are there any effects on CC, like post-wave 25 in Endless? A little documentation is all I'm asking for. It's hard to correct a strategy that isn't working when you don't know WHY it stopped working.

  • Not excusing the lack of in-game explanation, but armor is basically effective health %. 50 armor means 33.3% damage reduction, which works out to you needing to do 50% more damage. 
  • CremoAcanthisCremoAcanthis Member
    edited June 2017
    Impression on trials:

    What tier are you reaching?  Does this feel appropriate?
    First Trial got to Tier 9
    lost a life on tier 7 because I somehow forgot I had a bomb attach to me  :'(, then lost twice on tier 9, first forgot I had knocback, quite a surprise when it kick in, than on second game the bomb got one cade near the rift from the other side of a wall. the modifier force you to look at map from different point that's nice, will definitely end up playing with traps that will not normally take, I do like the challenge

    Which modifiers are fun?  Which modifiers are unfun?
    More unchained drops feels... meh
    No Go Break, that's just savage, at least not on the first wave (or like somebody already suggested, 30 seconds on the first wave) I will survive with 3 seconds between the wave, but I do like to have the time to breathe on the first wave.

    How do the rewards feel?
    They feel rewarding, that's nice, you have a reason to push, maybe the chest could have a better chance at epix or rare traps at higher level, that would be really nice

    How do the scores feel?
    They do feel a bit lucky, the modifier can so much affect the score, and also, like the top 1 spot currently on the leaderbord started in a 3 man team, for 5 tier, then he went and did another 5 tier solo, so currently 75% of he's score comes from his first 5 waves in the 3 man team, it's easier to get more score at a higher number of player. so maybe if a key is started with 3 player, it could not be use for solo afterwards, and if the key is started solo, can not be transfert to multi.

    Not sure the score is really worth it on that mode, the highest tier yes, but score, it feel like having a mized scorebord of all maps, where the map is'nt shown... what I mean is that we cannot really compare score, if we're playing on different maps

    Post edited by CremoAcanthis on
  • ShadeDev said:
    The modifiers have hidden values.  If you get two modifiers, it's because those are considered easy.

    One rift point OTOH, is considered very hard so it'll only appear alone or with other bonuses.
    http://puu.sh/wqVXW/e9842d5e1b.jpg

    Is THREE extra mods at once supposed to be a possibility? This wasn't even a rift lord difficulty key. It's a bit too much, I think.
  • ShadeDevShadeDev Member, Robot Entertainment, Early Access, Apprentice Founder, Featured Developer
    DominoE said:
    ShadeDev said:
    The modifiers have hidden values.  If you get two modifiers, it's because those are considered easy.

    One rift point OTOH, is considered very hard so it'll only appear alone or with other bonuses.
    http://puu.sh/wqVXW/e9842d5e1b.jpg

    Is THREE extra mods at once supposed to be a possibility? This wasn't even a rift lord difficulty key. It's a bit too much, I think.
    Yes.  That has to be able to exist if we want any ability to balance modifiers at all.  No health drops and increased cooldown are considered easy.  Lightning armor is considered medium.  

    Things like "You have 1 rift point" are considered "VERY HARD".
    Doug Houserman
    Robot Entertainment | Lead Balance Designer
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