Chaos Trials Feedback

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  • YeldarbYeldarb Member, Early Access

    @ShadeDev

    Does it take into account modifiers specifically or just on the difficulty rating?  Like would it raise the difficulty of the "deaths take away rift points" if you had the "You have 1 rift point" mod.  Just wondering :D

    You Have to Yell Darb to get Yeldarb
  • ShadeDevShadeDev Member, Robot Entertainment, Early Access, Apprentice Founder, Featured Developer
    Yeldarb said:

    @ShadeDev

    Does it take into account modifiers specifically or just on the difficulty rating?  Like would it raise the difficulty of the "deaths take away rift points" if you had the "You have 1 rift point" mod.  Just wondering :D

    Those cannot be combined :)
    Doug Houserman
    Robot Entertainment | Lead Balance Designer
  • ShadeDev said:
    Yeldarb said:

    @ShadeDev

    Does it take into account modifiers specifically or just on the difficulty rating?  Like would it raise the difficulty of the "deaths take away rift points" if you had the "You have 1 rift point" mod.  Just wondering :D

    Those cannot be combined :)
    Good thing!
    You have a good base there. It's nice you've given yourself the ability to combine and weight modifiers. Some things need balancing, but by next patch it should be very good.
    What I'd like to see:
    - More modifiers. It goes without saying, but right now, if you go far enough, you have a big chance of getting that one modifier you dislike sooner or later. We need more modifiers so every run feels really different, and not a different combination of the same modifiers.
    - Some modifiers shouldn't be chosen from the beginning. Primary knockback, for exemple, get old when you get it from the start, but I've said that already.
    - Maybe a way to reroll a modifier, sometimes? I know it goes against the Chaos part, but it would make the mode more enjoyable if you had a way to change a modifier you really don't like or had for a long time. Of course, you couldn't do it all the time, but being able to change one or two per run would be great.
  • It is early, so I can offer a few impressions.

    Which modifiers are fun?  Which modifiers are unfun?

    • No go breaks - I liked this. It was very intense and challenging, and I can see that you might want to reserve it for rift lord only, but we had a great time making our plan in advance and executing under time pressure. High challenge, high satisfaction.
    • Armour - Certainly an in game explanation of what 50 armour means would be nice. Having one of these is uninteresting. When they cluster, they get a lot more intense and fun. I would suggest that early armours make late armours more likely, and no early armour makes late armour less probable.
    • Timed modifiers - The early protection and the late charge are the ones I have seen. I like them both. I think more timed modifiers could be interesting, including positive ones.

    Huge difficulty variability

    This is just an observation, but the thing about chaos trials that stands out to me the most is how much easier some keys are than others. Which maps you get early seems enormously influential, as well as the modifiers, of course. I think this will make score comparisons mostly meaningless between most keys. Those who want to compete on the score table will probably have to grind many keys to get a combination of maps and modifiers that allow them to really maximise their score.
    Claw and Tooth
    Sabotage guild, Orcs Must Die Unchained
  • Was it mentioned somewhere that each tier gives the minions more damage and health? Seems like you'd want to mention that.
  • xombobxombob Member
    ShadeDev said:
    Hey guys,

    In patch 2.2, we added the new exciting mode: Chaos Trials.  I'm really glad to see the positive reception so far, but I would like to hear everyone's feedback on a few key points:
    • Which modifiers are fun?  Which modifiers are unfun?
    We just made it to 9th tier, and I do love this mode because it forces you to change your builds and abandon old ones that used to work so well before.

    Regarding which modifiers are unfun, Id have to say everything that disables your hero very often like the dance modifier, especially since there seems to be plenty of other modifiers that specifially spawn more merceneries. You cant really avoid killing merceneries either, so its a constant annoyance. Later on dancing pretty much always kills you and paired with "do this and that on hero death" it feels like a giant middle finger to the player making you lose by something you cant really control. Everything else Ive seen so far (including the much hated barricade rubble modifier) seemed to be pretty fair, forcing you to change tactics and builds to overcome the challenge. With the mercenery dance thing you cant really do anything to counter it?

    The disabled camera might be another one like that, although at least that one you can try to avoid by using healing heroes and healing wells.
  • ShadeDevShadeDev Member, Robot Entertainment, Early Access, Apprentice Founder, Featured Developer
    xombob said:
    ShadeDev said:
    Hey guys,

    In patch 2.2, we added the new exciting mode: Chaos Trials.  I'm really glad to see the positive reception so far, but I would like to hear everyone's feedback on a few key points:
    • Which modifiers are fun?  Which modifiers are unfun?
    We just made it to 9th tier, and I do love this mode because it forces you to change your builds and abandon old ones that used to work so well before.

    Regarding which modifiers are unfun, Id have to say everything that disables your hero very often like the dance modifier, especially since there seems to be plenty of other modifiers that specifially spawn more merceneries. You cant really avoid killing merceneries either, so its a constant annoyance. Later on dancing pretty much always kills you and paired with "do this and that on hero death" it feels like a giant middle finger to the player making you lose by something you cant really control. Everything else Ive seen so far (including the much hated barricade rubble modifier) seemed to be pretty fair, forcing you to change tactics and builds to overcome the challenge. With the mercenery dance thing you cant really do anything to counter it?

    The disabled camera might be another one like that, although at least that one you can try to avoid by using healing heroes and healing wells.
    You can't avoid dancing, but you can control when it occurs.
    Doug Houserman
    Robot Entertainment | Lead Balance Designer
  • BragdrasBragdras Member, Master Founder, Early Access
    What are the key droprates? I know it was said that longer maps mean higher chance, but what are those chances? I haven't gotten a single key so far beside the one we were given on patch day.
  • ShadeDevShadeDev Member, Robot Entertainment, Early Access, Apprentice Founder, Featured Developer
    edited June 2017
    Bragdras said:
    What are the key droprates? I know it was said that longer maps mean higher chance, but what are those chances? I haven't gotten a single key so far beside the one we were given on patch day.
    It's ROUGHLY 1 key per 3 hours of gameplay.  However, it's random.  We make no guarantees.

    If you're in a group, that will average to 1 key per 1 hour of gameplay.
    Post edited by ShadeDev on
    Doug Houserman
    Robot Entertainment | Lead Balance Designer
  • AmugaAmuga Member
    Bragdras said:
    What are the key droprates? I know it was said that longer maps mean higher chance, but what are those chances? I haven't gotten a single key so far beside the one we were given on patch day.
    I'd also be interested in knowing this
  • ShadeDev said:
    Bragdras said:
    What are the key droprates? I know it was said that longer maps mean higher chance, but what are those chances? I haven't gotten a single key so far beside the one we were given on patch day.
    It's ROUGHLY 1 key per 3 hours of gameplay.

    If you're in a group, that will average to 1 key per 1 hour of gameplay.
    could it be the same  dropchance like the old gold chests? 
  • OndarkOndark Member
    edited June 2017
    i had
    Extra Kamikaze Kobolds
    Extra Fire Mages
    Extra Ogre Mages
    Extra Northmun Archers
    Extra Pride Hunters
    Arcane Armor +50
    Barricade x3 = i hate alot limits builds and is enourmous in combination with about 5000 additional mobs first wave
    Big Hunter Traps x3
    Barricaded Rubble doesnt go away
    No Mana Drops
    i got to tier 12 Banquet hall but that when i constantly died to Pride Hunters (outrunning me on Maximilian) no way to get away Ogre Mages they like to shoot around walls even if you hide or my Barricades died to the new TNT Archers in whatever 3th wave if you stand anywhere near a wall wich blocks the Dynamit shot then explodes kills your cades rubble rubble 3x price guess what stuff runs thru....
    it was thrilling ...just wish you couldn get like 5Billion mobs in Wave 1 2 3 4 till you can setup a trap box which you cant with all thoose modifiers ....
    I used a half price scroll and more money but the problem was the pride hunters killed me if not thoose then Ogre Mages if not thoose then Fire Mages if not thoose then Northmun Archers and if not thoose the Kamikaze Blew up my Cades since i couldn go defend nor did i have money to place traps to defend against them ....Each Wave like 5 Kamikaze Kobolds from Each entrance yay some maps its np some maps its craptastic

    BTW Chaos Keys dont drop while playing Chaos Trials right ? i got 2 Keys so far but never when playing Chaos and i been playing 80% Chaos Trials
  • xombobxombob Member
    ShadeDev said:
    You can't avoid dancing, but you can control when it occurs.
    Not if you are using hunter traps, but I suppose you have to leave them out in this case. But without them having both extra merceneries and extra pride hunters and extra archers with that camera disable modifier is kind of overkill maybe O_o

    BUUUT while it annoys me a lot, I do also like the extra challenge in this mode and the strategic planning required so maybe I just have to figure out a way of minimizing the effects of dancing (maybe those health wells will be my new best friend).

    BTW does freedom trinket work against dancing?
  • ShadeDevShadeDev Member, Robot Entertainment, Early Access, Apprentice Founder, Featured Developer
    xombob said:
    ShadeDev said:
    You can't avoid dancing, but you can control when it occurs.
    Not if you are using hunter traps, but I suppose you have to leave them out in this case. But without them having both extra merceneries and extra pride hunters and extra archers with that camera disable modifier is kind of overkill maybe O_o

    BUUUT while it annoys me a lot, I do also like the extra challenge in this mode and the strategic planning required so maybe I just have to figure out a way of minimizing the effects of dancing (maybe those health wells will be my new best friend).

    BTW does freedom trinket work against dancing?
    Yep
    Doug Houserman
    Robot Entertainment | Lead Balance Designer
  • xombob said:
    BTW does freedom trinket work against dancing?
    It does, but I found "Attention Deficit" to be more useful. Dance is both short and intermittent, so you can get better use out of the Gear slot. I (personally) can live without a couple of the traits I would otherwise take into game, but really miss having the Mage's Picnic.
  • Just finished a chaos run. Rift Lord, got to level 9. Franckly, until then, it was a cruise: I had gotten lucky and got pretty easy modifiers. Everything was going great. Then, lvl 9: the Bath. New modifier: Arcane armor. Well, I tried it with Max, Midnight and Blackpaw, 3 defeats in a row, and on the first wave each time. There's just nothing I could do, the minions suddenly felt unkillable, when I had had such an easy time before that. In fact, the previous map I had cleared was Eventide Fortress; the most complex map, against the simplest one. Yet I was crushed, like there had been a sudden spike of difficulty. Is this normal? Is there, like, a very steep ramp-up when reaching level 9? Because I feel a bit salty having been crushed so badly when the rest of the run was going so smoothly. :)
  • Just finished a chaos run. Rift Lord, got to level 9. Franckly, until then, it was a cruise: I had gotten lucky and got pretty easy modifiers. Everything was going great. Then, lvl 9: the Bath. New modifier: Arcane armor. Well, I tried it with Max, Midnight and Blackpaw, 3 defeats in a row, and on the first wave each time. There's just nothing I could do, the minions suddenly felt unkillable, when I had had such an easy time before that. In fact, the previous map I had cleared was Eventide Fortress; the most complex map, against the simplest one. Yet I was crushed, like there had been a sudden spike of difficulty. Is this normal? Is there, like, a very steep ramp-up when reaching level 9? Because I feel a bit salty having been crushed so badly when the rest of the run was going so smoothly. :)
    Were you using Bowling balls on Baths? Since that does Arcane damage.
    That would of decreased your attack significantly on the first wave.
    Keep it secret, Keep it safe.
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  • Nope, I used viscous tar, arrow wall and swinging mace. Could only place one of each, with some barricades, since it was the first wave. My heroes did very little damage to enemies, even Midnight who's one of the highest DPS hero in the game. It was noticeably less damage than during the previous level, almost like the new armor modifier was active on all type of damage. Of course, Bath being a very short level, I had no way to beat the wave before minions reached the rift; I tried a different trap setup each time, but still failed. On wave 1, with almost no trap, I needed my hero to do most of the damage, but they didn't do nearly enough... :(
    Also when I placed a guardian in front of the gate (the default one), he got killed almost instantly and didn't survive the first wave. But that might have been because I had additional archers and fire mages as modifiers.

    Actually, if I remember well, by this point I had those modifiers:
    - Additional Frost archers
    - Additional Fire mages
    - Frost armor
    - Stronger scouts
    - Expensive BGH traps
    - Rift point loss on death
    - More Health drops
    - Rush timer
    And two new ones added just before this map:
    - Arcane armor
    - The one where you get poop on your screen when picking up drops, don't know its name in english. :)

    As you can see, I had been pretty lucky, for a level 9 run. Don't know if I was victim of a bug, or if I simply wasn't prepared for the difficulty spike. I know each Chaos Key level makes the enemies tougher (like in endless after a certain wave), but that was in no way comparable to the difficulty of Survival Rift Lord Bath, I can tell you that. I think I should have been able to win this game pretty easily with those modifiers. :)

  • That is weird :/ , I will keep my eyes and ears open, to try and find anyone else who has had the same issue. 
    Keep it secret, Keep it safe.
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  • Seconding that Arcane Armor seems to be bugged. Everything was going fine for one of my keys until we rolled Arcane Armor, at which point it felt like everything suddenly became super tanky even though no-one in our group was using arcane.
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