Chaos Trials Feedback

124

Comments

  • AxonyAxony Member
    The Main point of the change was to make it more difficult to get trap part.
    It feels like the drop chance for epics are way higher in chaos trials (i get around 2-3 epics each chest) last chest T6 i got 2 parts and a Boom Barrel Roller.

    Just imagine easier T12 Keys and you will have boosted lvl20 Players with T7 Traps.
    Then you can say goodbye to Sabotage

    I can understand your arguments about the difficult change but i don't feel a real difference in RL keys.
    You can reach T7 easy and i will try the higher tiers later this evening
  • Shigoto said:
    Ide like to point out the bit where its because we were never supposed to be able to complete a key and the fact that some of us did (a very small minority) and that like 3 people on the official forums said the one key they completed was to easy all of us now have to deal with it. If like 90% of the community was stomping T12 riftlord keys with ease i would agree with him maybe something needs to change. Heck if 50% of the entire player base was capable of rolling through T12 riftlord at level 50 with mid level traps then something probably needs to be re-evaluated. but thats not the case at the moment. Its the fact that ANYBODY was about to clear this challenge that has brought this hotfix onto the game.  
    I don't honestly know what your point is here. The posts you provided images of show Shade explaining why Robot did a thing (which, I hadn't seen - I agree it would be nice if the developers posted this stuff somewhere we could reference it), and you basically ranting at him.

    If your argument is "Chaos Trials should be easier, because most people can't clear them" you have misidentified their purpose. They're the end-game content. You know how MMOs will release new raid bosses that are nearly impossible to kill? It takes the top guilds many attempts, and the first kill is a big deal? That was their goal here. Rift Lord Chaos Trials were not meant for level 50 players to clear in order to rapidly farm out gear. They're meant for the level 100 players to have something challenging and fun to play. In that regard, Chaos Trials is a HUGE success. We went from having only Sabotage and Endless to play (both of which get stale) to having a great new game mode that also helps us to fill up the Workshop. I'm actually REALLY impressed with it. The different mods force you to build in ways you otherwise wouldn't even consider. It's quite remarkable.

    Oh, and we literally just cleared a T12 Rift Lord key (like... 20 minutes ago). They're still doable. Which, kind of undermines your entire rant. They aren't impossible to clear even after the supposed difficulty increase. You just need to have a bit of luck with the mods, and come up with a good strategy.

    There's plenty of things in this game you could legitimately complain about, but Chaos Trials being too hard just isn't one of them.
  • Periclum said:
    Shigoto said:
    Ide like to point out the bit where its because we were never supposed to be able to complete a key and the fact that some of us did (a very small minority) and that like 3 people on the official forums said the one key they completed was to easy all of us now have to deal with it. If like 90% of the community was stomping T12 riftlord keys with ease i would agree with him maybe something needs to change. Heck if 50% of the entire player base was capable of rolling through T12 riftlord at level 50 with mid level traps then something probably needs to be re-evaluated. but thats not the case at the moment. Its the fact that ANYBODY was about to clear this challenge that has brought this hotfix onto the game.  
    I don't honestly know what your point is here. The posts you provided images of show Shade explaining why Robot did a thing (which, I hadn't seen - I agree it would be nice if the developers posted this stuff somewhere we could reference it), and you basically ranting at him.

    If your argument is "Chaos Trials should be easier, because most people can't clear them" you have misidentified their purpose. They're the end-game content. You know how MMOs will release new raid bosses that are nearly impossible to kill? It takes the top guilds many attempts, and the first kill is a big deal? That was their goal here. Rift Lord Chaos Trials were not meant for level 50 players to clear in order to rapidly farm out gear. They're meant for the level 100 players to have something challenging and fun to play. In that regard, Chaos Trials is a HUGE success. We went from having only Sabotage and Endless to play (both of which get stale) to having a great new game mode that also helps us to fill up the Workshop. I'm actually REALLY impressed with it. The different mods force you to build in ways you otherwise wouldn't even consider. It's quite remarkable.

    Oh, and we literally just cleared a T12 Rift Lord key (like... 20 minutes ago). They're still doable. Which, kind of undermines your entire rant. They aren't impossible to clear even after the supposed difficulty increase. You just need to have a bit of luck with the mods, and come up with a good strategy.

    There's plenty of things in this game you could legitimately complain about, but Chaos Trials being too hard just isn't one of them.
    I totally agree with you and I think the raid comparison is pretty good. The intent of chaos trials is not to be won in my opinion. It's about the challenge and that you should think about how to complete each tier because they all are challenging and not about finishing tier 12 to get the most loot. Sure, that's a great thing but for me personally, the biggest rewards were actually clearing certain difficult rounds and all the skulls, traps and parts were a really big and rewarding bonus. 

    Also, this isn't about preferring the top 0,5% of the playerbase or the majority over each other but rather to bring challenges for everyone at every time as well as creating something that doesn't burn out as fast because you'll eventually be done with everything. And I feel like they did a pretty good job on that aspect. I didn't know that tier 12 was the maximum up until now and considering that I was able to reach tier 11 once with a level 90 account on my own without owning all heroes and far from having most traps at tier 7 doesn't feel quite right. Furthermore, the rewards have been really good for me, even if you don't make it that far and the challenge is surely there.

    It sounds to me as if some people are trying to bring down the raidboss after they completed story mode when they enter rift lord chaos trials after completing all rift lord maps. It's supposed to bring the challenge on a whole new level and if people can complete this on a somewhat consistent basis, it's missed its purpose in my opinion.

    Also, about the forcing to build new ways - I love that aspect. Not only do I get to try out new strategies but I'm also encouraged and kinda forced to, which is a great thing. For me, in survival and sabotage it was a long way of trial and error until I found strategies for every map that worked and after that, it's just alterating the strategy as needed or get punished for not sticking to it and trying different stuff out. (ice vent, saw of arctos, decoy, overload trap and arcane phaser user and hogarth player speaking)
  • myrikhanmyrikhan Member
    edited June 2017

    • What tier are you reaching?  Does this feel appropriate?
    I didn't get very far before I ran into 'no go breaks' and 'disable items'.
    • Which modifiers are fun?  Which modifiers are unfun?
    'No go breaks', 'expensive barricades' and 'disable items' are deal breakers for me.
    I won't be playing chaos as long as they exist.
    • How do the rewards feel?
    Meh.
    • How do the scores feel?
    Scores are meaningless. They're based on luck.
  • ShigotoShigoto Member
    edited June 2017
    Periclum said:
    I don't honestly know what your point is here. The posts you provided images of show Shade explaining why Robot did a thing (which, I hadn't seen - I agree it would be nice if the developers posted this stuff somewhere we could reference it), and you basically ranting at him.

    If your argument is "Chaos Trials should be easier, because most people can't clear them" you have misidentified their purpose. They're the end-game content. You know how MMOs will release new raid bosses that are nearly impossible to kill? It takes the top guilds many attempts, and the first kill is a big deal? That was their goal here. Rift Lord Chaos Trials were not meant for level 50 players to clear in order to rapidly farm out gear. They're meant for the level 100 players to have something challenging and fun to play. In that regard, Chaos Trials is a HUGE success. We went from having only Sabotage and Endless to play (both of which get stale) to having a great new game mode that also helps us to fill up the Workshop. I'm actually REALLY impressed with it. The different mods force you to build in ways you otherwise wouldn't even consider. It's quite remarkable.

    Oh, and we literally just cleared a T12 Rift Lord key (like... 20 minutes ago). They're still doable. Which, kind of undermines your entire rant. They aren't impossible to clear even after the supposed difficulty increase. You just need to have a bit of luck with the mods, and come up with a good strategy.

    There's plenty of things in this game you could legitimately complain about, but Chaos Trials being too hard just isn't one of them.
    My point isnt that they need to make Trials a cakewalk. I get that its supposed to be hard. I didnt think for an instant that i would be able to clear every key every time on every difficulty. My point is that the dev team is flat out feeding the community false information. There deflecting responsibility back onto the community by saying "we did this because you wanted it." and then a few days latter strait up admitting that "we didnt actually listen to your feedback on this. were making changes because we dont like how well your performing." Its about expecting more from a product your trying to support and grow because you ENJOY THE GAME. I try different trap combos and strats on my own already. I didnt need Chaos trials to encourage that.

    The point im trying to make here is a little less about Trials and a little more about being honest to the community. But whatever, its in Beta so it gets a pass. The devs really listen to us guys and they really really value our feedback so it gets a pass when they stealth nerf a bunch of characters and say "you wanted us to do this."

    Before you say that putting "Several skills have been updated to cap the number of enemies they can strike. This will not affect general gameplay but should mitigate stalling tactics." in the hotfix notes is acceptable documentation its not. Its lazy and borderline stealth balancing. What characters were changed. What abilities specifically? Did they have a cap before? How drastic was the change exactly? How exactly will this not affect general game play when tundra's freeze spell only hits 4 targets maximum when it used to hit 10?We dont need to know that information tho. Its not important to know exactly how a character functions in order to properly strategize for high level content like chaos trials like you suggested. Its not like its supposed to be difficult or anything. You just gotta be lucky with the modifiers you get.
  • AxonyAxony Member
    Shigoto said:

    The point im trying to make here is a little less about Trials and a little more about being honest to the community. But whatever, its in Beta so it gets a pass. The devs really listen to us guys and they really really value our feedback so it gets a pass when they stealth nerf a bunch of characters and say "you wanted us to do this."
    The game is not in Beta anymore, it's full released.
  • FireEagleFireEagle Member
    edited June 2017
    What tier are you reaching? 
    I'm reching betwen tier 7-9, but only if RNGesus is with me.. 

    Does this feel appropriate?
    Well not realy because its not based on Skill but on Pure Luck/Rng witch Modifiers you get. One Postive Modifier (if you Lucky) for 6-8 or only Negativ Modifier are a bit overkill. At Least that's my Opinion.

    Which modifiers are fun?
    Faster Runspeed, mainly because it makes Heros like Bionka/Cygnus/Oziel finaly Enjoyable to play on Bigger Maps.

    Which modifiers are unfun?
    Gear Disabler.. It makes Keys with the Wrong Mods unfun and outright Imposible to play.
    Spawn Protection + Resis (Only Combined) On Maps like Banket Hall / FF is Frustrating the only thing you can do is waiting for you lose, Runner will lose there Protection first right behind the Cook in the South and if they have Physic/Lightning Resistence you'r Dead.
    Primary Knockback, this is totaly annoying, the Time on it is much too long, 4-5 sec would be more then Enough. Heroes like Max flying literally half across a map with this. And Combined with the above mentions its even worse.

    How do the rewards feel?
    Atm the rewards are ok, since i still ned Parts and Traps and Guardians. But Later? I don't think it will keep me Playing for long. First of all you sould no't be able to reach the "End" of thos Keys. (State on Steam..) That's a big Downside for me, i would like to know i can reach the End of a Key (Maybe Tier 15-20) and be rewarded with something that's worth the Time i spent on it. Maybe a Skin Chest or something Similar, or even with a Special Skin for eache Hero that you beat a Key with. 

    This Could also be part of a Secondary Game Mode for Chaos Trails, wehre you'r locked to the Hero you couse at the Start, it would need more Balancing, and a few more Modifieres (Postive and Negative) but i think this would be a lot of Fun for all who would like a challenge with a Goal at the End. 

    Don't get me Wrong, i like Chaos Trails, but i thing they are a bit Underdeveloped atm but have a lot of Potential.

    How do the scores feel?
    Meaningless, after all you don't get anything except you name on a List. Maybe later if a Good / Top Score get you a Reward (Portrait Symbol, Trap Skin if they ever come ^^ Hero Coloure) at the End of the Month or so, then they would be interesting. But for this the Sroce Counter it self must be lowerd.. 140M+ Points after 5-7 Maps are ridiculous for something that's purely based on luck of your Modifiers.  Again Potential is there, but it needs to be used, if! thahs something they want and like to do.

    And Sorry for my Englisch, it's not my Native Language, still i Hope you understand waht i tryed to say. :)
    Post edited by FireEagle on
  • phattonyphattony Member
    edited June 2017
    FireEagle said:

    How do the scores feel?
    Meaningless, after all you don't get anything except you name on a List. Maybe later if a Good / Top Score get you a Reward (Portrait Symbol, Trap Skin if they ever come ^^ Hero Coloure) at the End of the Month or so, then they would be interesting. But for this the Sroce Counter it self must be lowerd.. 140M+ Points after 5-7 Maps are ridiculous for something that's purely based on luck of your Modifiers.  Again Potential is there, but it needs to be used, if! thahs something they want and like to do.

    It's not too much rng for a score of 100M + after 7 maps.  It's just about knowing how to handle each modifier while maximizing combos. Our previous key we hit 139M after 7-8 maps and then failed it. The current key we are pushing is 140M score with a few lives left. We intentionally lost a life cuz we messed something up that would have greatly reduced our score for the map. We also have to deal with no go breaks and double floor trap cost which really messes up combos and score in early waves. In later waves those modifiers don't matter but losing out on combos early does matter. 

    The rng that did come into play here can be seen on our score variance if 10 M on crogon keep. On previous key we were able to get a score of 45 M on that map (we had a bunch of extra minion modifiers). On the key with no go breaks  we only got 35M ( we also had to alter our strat to effectively handle wave 1). Increased floor traps was added after crogon and affected our score on next maps as well. I think the actual biggest rng factor is what maps you get. A map like crogon keep of ececuted correctly will net you way more points then getting stuck with baths. 

    Its all about having a plan ahead of time and and executing it well. SeanPoe had terrible modifiers for his key in terms of combo and score but he still made it to 125+M solo. 

    Most players from what I've seen don't bring loadouts to maximize combos / have hero deaths etc and that greatly reduces your score. 
    Twitch.tv/phattony99
  • VarthftwVarthftw Member
    edited July 2017
    Here is a big list of issues/gripes  that I have with chaos trials:
    • Having modifiers that are complete bull together after tier 2 (expensive floor traps + expensive barricades) I've gotten this combo plenty of times and it seems to not even be worth my time after about tier 8, and that is if I even want to try going on with the key. basically any expensive trap mod + another expensive mod is just not realistically fair (doesn't mean you can't do it but makes it not fun).
    • Please give us the option to reroll modifiers for a life point of something because having no-go breaks from tier 1, 5 keys in a row is kind of frustrating ( I've done no-go breaks to level ten on average). Having to go from a high level key with no go breaks, and then having it for the next 4 keys in a row is not fun for me. I am up for the challenge, but I would like some diversity and being able to choose if I want to reroll.
    • Maybe have a way to delete keys or disenchant them if you don't want them. Convert it to gibs or to a separate currency of its own like key shards, That way you can choose to get rid of the key and not just have it take up space or not want to run it ever.
    • I think the biggest issue is when you add 3 or 4 armor type mods into the key. Not only does it limit the character choices at 10+, but not having a diversity in traps to compensate for the on armor type you can run without it being penalized. There are no wall traps that are ice/arcane. There no lightning floor traps, and no fire ceiling traps, etc. I think you get my point. I am fine maybe being limited to playing one hero because of the armors, but not really okay with the limit to the one elements traps. Physical damage/traps seems to be the majority of the traps and heroes. I know you can use parts and what not to compensate for the lower amount of damage the trap does or just bring physics traps to add more damage to the target. I am not saying that it isn't a bad ting to still run those traps with resonators like debilitation, but it would be nice to have diversity in all areas not just have most things revolve around physical. Having fire/arcane/ice/lightning have all types of traps would be nice. On a side note deadeye's damage looks physical so it will not help add to the solution of this. The big issue is having all heroes be able to perform at a high level. Obvious that each hero is unique in what they can do but clearing a 12 is 1000 times easier with physical damage vs a fire damage hero (also because phycial as every type(floor/ceiling,wall) of trap viable)).
    •  Please Remove IMage from chaos Trials until it is fixed 100%. There is many runs that are 9+ in level where I always get a bugged iMage and sometimes get multiple bugged IMages. Just a huge grief and annoyance to deal with.
    • Please remove the "they destroyed our barricades" sound from barricades that are rubble from the modifier.
    • There are still bugs that I am finding and having to report and it seems overall that the game mode was not tested at all but feels rushed. Maybe take some more time to test it before launching it. Or allow players to test it in a test realm of some type. The bugs prevent me from playing certain heroes and I am already limited most the time because of the armor mods.

    Overall this is what I can think of currently. Having no physical armor mod is basically a free level 12 clear every time for me because of having the majority of traps being physical and high impact heroes being physical.

  • Seconding that Arcane Armor seems to be bugged. Everything was going fine for one of my keys until we rolled Arcane Armor, at which point it felt like everything suddenly became super tanky even though no-one in our group was using arcane.
    Thirding this. Except Ice Armor. Tier 6-7(can't remember) and we had ice armor on Throne room. We could barely even dent the big mobs. 3 people vs 5 Heavy Orcs and it took us from before the priest area to the rift to kill 4 of them...the 5th got in.

    Also had a similar issue earlier specifically with Order mages. On Tier 5-6 key on Banquet Hall and those mages could run the whole wall of Tier 6-7 wall/ground traps and still make it through with 75% health. What do you do when they hit like trucks and are built like tanks? We had Mountain trolls in Tier 7 that were easier to kill than those mages.
  • Distaste said:
    Seconding that Arcane Armor seems to be bugged. Everything was going fine for one of my keys until we rolled Arcane Armor, at which point it felt like everything suddenly became super tanky even though no-one in our group was using arcane.
    Thirding this. Except Ice Armor. Tier 6-7(can't remember) and we had ice armor on Throne room. We could barely even dent the big mobs. 3 people vs 5 Heavy Orcs and it took us from before the priest area to the rift to kill 4 of them...the 5th got in.

    Also had a similar issue earlier specifically with Order mages. On Tier 5-6 key on Banquet Hall and those mages could run the whole wall of Tier 6-7 wall/ground traps and still make it through with 75% health. What do you do when they hit like trucks and are built like tanks? We had Mountain trolls in Tier 7 that were easier to kill than those mages.
    Note: The mage thing is intendend. Order Mages are actually resistent to traps, it's their special skill. Which means that you'd need a lot of traps to kill them, and they will usually survive even the best killboxes. But if you attack them with your hero, they're actually pretty easy to kill.
    Once again, the fact that most special rules of the game are hidden or not well presented is a problem. Good thing Robot is taking steps to change this. :)
  • AxonyAxony Member
    Order mages take about 50-75% reduces dmg from traps, so that's normal
  • What tier are you reaching?  Does this feel appropriate?

    7 to 8 (solo). It feels like my traps lose its effectiveness after that, making the game (also) lose its whole "smart trap placement" purpose to turn into a "Hero button masher" game -- which is definitely not "appropriate" imo.

    Which modifiers are fun?  Which modifiers are unfun?

    Anything that turns the game into a "Hero button masher" (i.e Minions turn into "bullet sponges"; traps become useless.)

    How do the rewards feel?

    Skull rewards are really generous. Trap cards...? Eh.

    How do the scores feel?

    It's a RNG game mode... so I don't care about it.
  • ShadeDev said:
    ....
    • What tier are you reaching?  Does this feel appropriate?
    • Which modifiers are fun?  Which modifiers are unfun?
    • How do the rewards feel?
    • How do the scores feel?

    Thanks!
    To preface this data, i'm lvl 92, with all the traps I use ranging between Tier 5 and Tier 7.....mostly 6 and 7.

    1) Usually max tier, though I have troubles right at Tier 12 depending on modifiers. I've played both solo and in groups and it seems fairly balanced, although some of the modifiers do tend to hurt kinda bad on solo. I think i've played War Mage, Master, and Rift Lord in pretty equal amounts. The difficulty seems pretty well balanced, save for a couple modifiers that are pretty gamebreaking below.

    2) I tend to enjoy playing the modifiers that affect hero combat mechanics. Things like Primary Knockback and extended cooldowns drastically effect gameplay, which keeps it interesting. What I don't like are things like expensive barricades, extra cost traps, and additional fire ogres/tnt archers. I feel these modifiers only compound my largest gripe with the game, which is mechanics that downsize the effectiveness of a killbox. This is a tower defense game, after all, not a free for all combat game. I've had a couple keys now with both expensive barricades/floor traps and additional fire ogres. I don't play those keys. Now, I understand that these modifiers exist to promote alternate killbox strategies, maybe try new traps, etc. My solution to this would be map variations. Chaos trials is all about random modifiers, so why not also add minor map changes? Nothing huge, but things like several different 'grate' patterns on the ground, relocate the bars on the walls that prevent traps in that position....etc. Small things that would require thinking on the fly and re-configuring a bit. Additionally, and I know this has been said several times before, added some kind of system to allow for trading in old keys for re-roll chances or something would be rather nice as well.

    3) I think the rewards are adequate, but lackluster. Skulls are nice, but in end game, they become useless. And by the time you're regularly clearing tier 12 rift lord keys......you've probably already got the majority of your traps upgraded so skulls aren't quite as important. That said, I don't think additional trap cards is the best way to go either, as that would unbalance the game a little bit and completely kill survival. Instead, I would love to see something like a random, awesome award being given for completing a T12 key. Something like a small chance at skins, gold, dyes, etc.

    4) I have literally never paid attention to scores. I couldn't even tell you what a 'good' score is. Totally clueless.




    All of this said, I enjoy chaos trials. I somewhat recently returned to the game after a long hiatus following beta. I wasn't quite feeling it, too grindy with not enough variation, but the chaos trials definitely made it interesting and I find myself playing A LOT nowadays. All in all, I like it quite a bit.

  • HadoEXTREMEHadoEXTREME Member
    edited July 2017
    As a level 100 and having played a lot of chaos trials (rift lord):

    • What tier are you reaching?

      Solo depends on the mods and map. Certain combinations make it impossible to solo tier 7+.
      Group of good players: can get to tier 12 almost every time. There aren't many good players.
      Group of average players: can get to tier 10-11
      Group of below average players: can get to tier 6-9

    •  Does this feel appropriate?

      Yes. But I wish I could start a key from a higher tier, so I don't have to waste time getting to the real challenge, and also being so careful about what key to play with what kind of group of players.

    • Which modifiers are fun? 

      No go breaks (a lot of fun with good players)
      1 Rift point left (a lot of fun with good players)
      Rift point loss on death (a lot of fun with good players)
      All extra monster spawn mods
      Unstable rift spawns
      Persistant rubble
      Rush timer
      Expensive barricades
      Mercenary spawn on death and extra mercenaries.
      Bargain buffs

    • Which modifiers are unfun?

      +100% cooldown mods
      TNT archers
      +50 armor mods

    • How do the rewards feel?

      Fair until tier 9-10. I would like to receive better traps and more parts on higher tiers, like boom barrel roller, double spring, components.

    • How do the scores feel?

      Meaningless, a waste of time to see and click next. Combos don't have a place on scores. A tier 12 key should never give 200K score and tier 1 10M+. I already posted a suggestion as to what I find a fair system.
      If the system felt fair and fun I would play for the score too.
  • "terrysongcn said:

    one constructive feedback:

    Modifiers persist through upgrading, this feels boring after 3 or 4 games playing the same modifiers again and again. Why not make modifiers randomly chosen every time the key upgrades?

    End Quote"

    Indeed 2x floor / expensive barr 3x / minion drop grenade / etc and half the maps arent doable or fun, randomize seems more fun indeed as player experience. im not that good with high scores numbers how that would effect that side of the story, but i dont see a downside either.

  • An update to this question half years later:

    I've been doing one chaos trial rift lord key per day recently and I think I've played enough now to answer some of these questions better.

    First of all, it feels much harder compared to half years ago. I normally solo until T10-T11. Haven't played high tier keys in a 3-man group recently to be able to tell the difficulty in teamplay

    I'm surprised that nobody considered coin drain as an unfavorable modifier half years ago, was it included in the release of CT?

    Due to the recent change in power generator, which almost rendered it useless IMO, getting coins in game becomes much harder. I'd hope power generator could negate coin drain. I think banning one trap slot by forcing players to bring PG should already be difficult enough. 

    I'm not sure what is the standard for difficulty design for chaos trial rift lord keys. Is it intended to allow certain overpowered combos to exist for the sake of maintaining the difficulty? Should players accept the fact that some keys are just not do-able and move on? or should every key have a solution? 

    I'm finding the following combo a bit over-powered:
    spawn protection+additional trolls/giants on small maps such as gate of thuricvod or midnight market. There just isn't enough map area for the spawn protection to wear off and minions become bullet sponges at high tiers.

    Rewards are still decent and leaderboard is still meaning less since it is still based on luck.
  • ... leaderboard is still meaning less since it is still based on luck.
    I would like to see CT leaderboards show a different metric than just total points accrued, because, as mentioned, it's based a lot on luck on which maps (and modifiers) you get.

    If we consider that the #1 score on the leaderboards for every map on Rift Lord Survival might provide an adequate baseline for a high score for each map, then every CT tier could be scored as a percentage of CT score / #1 Survival score for that map.  The CT leaderboard could then show the average map percentage score for the key.

    This would take a lot of the RNG luck out of the mix for CT leaderboards that are currently heavily weighted on getting lucky with high scoring maps.
  • High score from survival may not be achieved in CT for the same map in high tiers, because minion's HP scales with tiers, which basically eliminates the chance to get high combo.
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