Some suggestions to modifiers in Chaos Trials.

Hello! I've been enjoying Chaos Trials ever since they came out quite a lot. I love the game being hard, but rewarding the further you progress. However, I noticed some thing that were, well, a bit too unfair (even though they are supposed to be unfair, some of them are too much). I'll just throw a list of mods here and express my opinion about each one of them. (Thanks TimeMaster for the list!) Keep the discussion going guys, and maybe we can work out some improvements. You could also suggest some modifiers that could be added, I'll make sure to edit the main thread to add them into the main post. 

ON DEATH


Mercenaries Spawn on Death: Summons a mercenary with each hero death.

Rift Point Loss on Death: Causes the team to lose rift points when heroes die.


BENEFICIAL MODIFIERS


Bonus Rift Points: Doubles rift points. - This is really good, although I've never seen it in action. Seems to be rare, so I'm fine with it.

Bargain Barricades: Decreases the cost of barricades by -50%. - This is really good, although I've never seen it in action. Seems to be rare, so I'm fine with it.

Bargain Buffs: Decreases the cost of support traps by -50%. - Eh, I've seen it once in a while. It does help a bit, if you're using support traps, although I don't see many people doing so. Still, a nice thing to have. 

More Health Drops: Increases the number of health drops 2x. - They're mostly RNG anyways, so it's fine. 

More Mana Drops: Increases the number of mana drops 2x. - They're mostly RNG anyways, so it's fine. 

Fast Heroes:
Increases hero movement speed by +15%. - This is fine, seems also to be rare as I wasn't even aware it was a thing. That's good!

More Unchained Drops: Increases the number of Unchained drops by 5x. - This is fine, seems also to be rare as I wasn't even aware it was a thing. That's good!

Bonus Damage at Low Health: Heroes deal +25% damage when below 50% health. - This is very nice, if you want to use it a lot then you're putting yourself at risk, especially as ranged characters, since they're squishy, except for Stinkeye. Overall it balances itself, and I like it.

Slow Minions: Slows minions by -15%. - This doesn't seem like much of a slow, never seen it in action myself, but seems fine. 

INCREASE COST

Expensive Barricades: Increases the cost of barricades 3x. - Well now that's just a pain in the butt. It can actually be combined with Expensive Floor Traps, (at least I assume so, as Expensive Hunter Traps can indeed be combined with Expensive Wall/Ceiling Traps) thus making Barricades even more expensive. Overall it does hurt early on, but it is manageable. It definitely shouldn't be able to combine with Expensive Floor Traps though.

Expensive Hunter Traps: Increases the cost of Big Game Hunting traps 3x. - They're not used that much anyways, people bring them mostly if there's additional mercs/mercs after death. The mod is fine. 

Expensive Ceiling Traps: Increases the cost of ceiling traps by 2x. - Fine.

Expensive Floor Traps: Increases the cost of floor traps by 2x. - Make it exclude Barricades, as Barricades aren't even really traps + reasons stated in Expensive Barricades mod. 

Expensive Physics Traps: Increases the cost of physics traps by 3x. - Why does it exclude Steam Vents?

Expensive Wall Traps: Increases the cost of wall traps by 2x. - Fine.


LONGER COOLDOWNS


Long Cooldowns: Increases the cooldown duration of hero abilities. - By how much exactly? 100%? 50%? 25%? We need information on that. 

Increased Epic Cooldown: Increases epic ability cooldowns by +100%. - Well this hits most of the characters quite hard, although Gabriella, Blackpaw, Midnight, Oziel, Stinkeye can manage well despite that. Not sure about Hogarth, Dobbin, Bloodspike and Temper, I haven't played them yet. Overall it's fine. 

Increased Unique Cooldown: Increases unique ability cooldowns by +100%. - It doesn't really hurt that much, the only heroes that are very disadvantegous imo are: Bionka, Oziel, Zoey. Overall it's fine. 

Increased Secondary Cooldown: Increases secondary ability cooldowns by +100%. - Okay now this is painful to pretty much everyone. Maayyybe except Stinkeye and Smolder, but it all goes down to their upgrade choices. Overall it's fine. 


MINION BUFFS


Melee Minion Damage: Increases minion melee damage by +25%. - This is fine I guess, most meelee characters are either high health so they can retreat, can just drop aggro (Midnight), or are ignored by most of the hard hitting minions (Dobbin), or just heal themselves quickly (Blackpaw). It's fine. 

Arcane Armor: Grants enemies +50 arcane armor. - I heard it is bugged at the moment and also gives resistance to other magic damage too. If it is true, needs to be fixed asap. I actually felt like once I got Arcane Armor stuff just refused to die, even if I used a hero that doesn't do arcane damage. 

Control Resistance: Increases minions' ability to resist control effects by +50%. - It prevents stalling via permastunning, freezing or slowing, so it forces you to focus more on damage and build killboxes that are meant to just OBLITERATE anything that steps inside. It doesn't affect knockback though (at least it doesn't seem to), so there still are some ways to delay the minions, whether it is Ivy, Temper, Zoey or physics traps. 

Fire Armor: Grants enemies +50 fire armor. - It's fine. 

Ice Armor: Grants minions +50 ice armor. - It's fine. 

Lightning Armor: Grants minions +50 lightning armor. - It's fine.

Physical Armor: Grants minions +50 physical armor. - It's fine. 

Spawn Protection: Minions take 50% less damage for 20s after spawning. - It's fine, although it hurts on maps with short lanes (Falling Folly east gate as an example). 

A little note to Armor mods - I think there should be a limit to how many can appear. Personally I had several keys with at least 3 armors, one being Arcane, Lightning, Physical and Spawn Protection. Things would literally not die. And it especially hurts when there's only Ice left, as Tundra and Hogarth don't do that much damage and mainly stall minions. And we don't really want Chaos Trials being all about stalling now, don't we? I suggest only 2 armors + spawn protection being available, but no more. 

Fast Minions: Increases minion movement speed by +20%. - That's not that much of a speedboost, some tar easily evens it, with T7 V.Tar being only 20% less effective. It's fine. 

Rugged Runners: Increases runner minion health 2x. - It is a pain when it comes to Gnoll Kamikazes or Satyrs, but it is fine overall. 

Rush Timer: If not killed within 40s, minions drop aggro and move +30% faster. - It is fine on its own, but perhaps make it not able to combine with Spawn Protection. 


MECHANIC REMOVAL


Persistant Rubble: Barricade rubble does not disappear. - Now that hurts a lot, but it is our fault if the cades are destroyed.  The only reasons for them being destroyed is either not killing kamikazes/fire ogres in time, fighting while standing on them, allowing TNT Archers and fire elementals to even get into the killbox. Same for Dwarf/Gnoll Grenadiers, they can completely ignore the cades and go into the rift. It's a punishment for our mistakes, so it's fine. 

No Go-breaks: Removes go breaks. - Oh boy, now here's my piece of cake. This is the mod that I just hate. While I love the idea of it, the way it works is just... terrible. Not only it gives you little to no time to even put barricades where they're needed, but it also is unfair to players with slower computers or connection. Some people take longer to load, and the game can start before they do so. If it happens in team play - people have less force to defend with no compensation at all, resulting in a much higher chance for first wave defeat. If it happens in solo play - minions just have a walk in the park right into the rift. 

There also is a thing that sometimes happens to me - the game itself loads on time, but the textures of heroes, maps, minions, skills and guardians are still rendering, resulting in huge FPS drops until it all settles down. Not only if you try to move your characters keeps walking instead of stopping when you release the button (so sometimes your hero ends up somewhere where the wave just kills him and gets the speedbost). 

It also makes the waves literally instant in some cases (Banquet Hall being an example, as waves start on the east entrance, where minions just instantly break the window and start going for the rift. It also always starts with Kobold Runners! Ouch!). It doesn't hurt if they are instant if they open in the middle of the game, but not at the first wave. The good part is that most entrances have gates, which give you a few seconds before minions start going for the rift, but on higher difficulties the gates seem to be made of paper that was just taken out of water.

My idea to improve this mod, while not making it too easy, is to give 20 seconds to prepare at the beginning. 15, or even 10, if 20 is too much. That'd give slower computers some more time, and we would have some, but not much time to prepare at least minimally. Just make it a go break, that can be skipped if the player/players want to do so, by simply pressing Ready button. 

No Health Drops: No health drops. - Fine.

No Mana Drops: No mana drops. - Fine. 

One Rift Point: Decreases rift points to 1. - Aren't Chaos Trials meant to make you alter your playstyle depending on mods, and try out different tactics? This mod just doesn't encourage that in any way. It just makes it stressful and very unforgiving. It also in some way encourages stalling, because who would risk the key's life if you can just pick Ivy, Tundra and a third stalling hero or a hero that will do enough damage to kill the waves. 

Gear Disabled: Disables all gear. - This is fine, it kind of encourages you to use Mana/Healing Wells. 


ADDITIONAL MINIONS


Additional Armored Ogres: Adds armored ogres to waves. - Fine. 

Additional Cyclops Mages: Adds cyclops mages to waves. - Oh boy I hate these guys. I don't like them being able to 1shot most of ranged heroes (poor Ivy), but we just gotta eat it up, right? My problem is that they actually focus ranged characters (or at least Ivy, as they rarely ever aim for me if I'm playing a different hero), as they tend to ignore the guardian or a meelee hero next to them. Even as Gabriella or Oziel I tend to be relatively close to the waves, but they rarely ever targeted me, meanwhile as Ivy I try to stay as far away as possible and the Cyclops Mages literally aggro on me. Is that intended? 

Additional TNT Archers: Adds TNT archers to waves. - Fine

Additional Fire Fiend Imps: Adds fire fiend imps to waves. - Fine

Additional Order Mages: Adds Order mages to waves. - Fine

Additional Fire Ogres: Adds fire ogres to waves. - Hurts cades a lot, kinda makes us not want to use tar in our killboxes, but fine. 

Additional Gnoll Grenadiers: Adds gnoll grenadiers to waves. - Fine

Additional Pride Hunters: Adds pride hunters to waves. - Fine

Additional Northmun Archers: Adds Northmun archers to waves. - Fine

Additional Kamikaze Kobolds: Adds kamikaze kobolds to waves. - Fine

Additional Mercenaries: Adds mercenaries to waves. - I swear if I get a fourth gnoll breeder in a row I'm going to murder someone. Perhaps make it so no two same mercenaries can be active at the same time? Not only it'd make it harder, but also would give a variety. 

Additional Forest Giants: Adds forest giants to waves. - Fine

Additional Mountain Trolls: Adds mountain trolls to waves. - Fine

Additional Shield Trolls: Adds shield trolls to waves - Fine

Additional Unstable Rifts: Adds unstable rifts to waves. - I love this mod. No, really, I do. It just makes me stop sitting in the boring killbox and get my bones shakin' while getting to that rift. 


OTHERS


Increased Aggro: Increases hero aggro by +50%. - Fine

Periodic Bomb: Periodically casts The Bomb Spell on a random hero. - The indicator for the bomb spell still seems to be inaccurate. I've had my cades destroyed even though the indicator said that I am indeed safe. 

Primary Knockback: Causes primary attacks to periodically knock heroes back for 7 seconds. - Poor Max. But hey, I don't like Max so it's fine!

Camera Freeze: Disables heroes' cameras when their health falls below 50%. - Never had it yet, so I don't have any opinion about it. Theoretically you can still shoot things, unless you fall below 50% while staring at the sky, that's when you're screwed.

Spudge Drops: Obscures a hero's camera with spudge when picking up a powerup. - That's an annoying thing, especially if you have Stinkeye in your team with his tears of oasis laying all around. Not sure if it works with Dobbin's coin bags and Bloodspike's meats. Also, is the spudge supposed to slow the hero? It seems to do so. Overall fine. 

Celebratory Dance: Causes team to dance when a boss or mercenary is killed. - This is nice, can screw you every now and then, but hey, at least you lose/die with style!


Suggestions for more mods:

Beefiers Mercanaries: Makes Mercenaries have doubled health.

Sneaky Minions: Makes some of the minions stealthed, being revealed only after taking damage. 



Comments

  • sashimiaksashimiak Member, Moderator, Robot Entertainment
    Thank you for all the work and thought you put into this. It's really comprehensive and well structured. I love when players make our life easier. :+1: I'm also quite excited by the Sneaky Minions idea.
    German Community Manager
  • TimeMasterTimeMaster Member, Early Access
    What kind of reply do you want? 

    If it's for the complaints:

    No Go-Breaks is annoying, has been said by other people too.
    Cyclops mages and any minion target/focus lowest health first, that's why they usually attack squishy/ranged heroes if they are in range.
    Gnoll Breeder is very very annoying.
    Area indicator of Bomb isn't matching the actual effect, bug/problem that was pointed out a while ago too.
    1 rift point not motivating any adaptation just making the levels very hard.

    That would have been easier to read ;)

    About your doubts, the long cooldowns might not be an actual playable modifier, my bad. 
  • SnipahShotSnipahShot Member
    edited July 2
    Wait.. What? Hunting traps are not used often? I rather throw away my ceiling ballista rather than give up my hunting ballista. Getting rid of mercs and bosses fast is a must. I have at least 3 hunting ballista in every match.
    I would be amused when you get a bugged iMage also, good luck with that without a hunting trap :-/

    Expensive barricades and floor traps - I suggest making the Expensive barricades mod override the expensive floor traps, making barricades x3 and other floor traps x2.

    Expensive Physics Traps - It is a bad name I think. I think it affects physical damage traps.

    No go breaks - Matches don't start until every player is connected, it has nothing to do with the go break after the match starts.

    Camera Freeze - Try getting your health back up with gear disabled. Shooting with the camera frozen? How about you were shooting down the stairs and now you are looking at the floor while walking anywhere. One of the worst possible mods in my opinion and the under 50% HP damage increase always comes with this mod, if not in the same time then a bit later.

    Spudge Drops - Doesn't work with Bloodspike's meals.
    Post edited by SnipahShot on
  • DonnerstagDonnerstag Member
    edited July 3

    My feedback on the modifiers:

    - Expensive Barricades: x3 is too much in my opinion; x2 would already be a pain in the butt. What's more annoying is that, at high level, some maps are almost unwinable without barricades. It's very frustrating to end up loosing the Chaos Key just because of one single modifier.
    - No go break: I actually think this one is fun and very hectic; I had fun playing with it, even though it's very difficult and stressful. Gave me flashbacks of Nightmare mode in OMD2. Although the fact that you don't even have time at the start of the match is very annoying. As it is now, it's too much; but if it only removed go-breaks between waves (not the first one, which is not even a break, technicaly), it would be much better.
    - Expensive traps: manageable when you only get one, even though expensive floor trap is pretty horrible, given how important they are (and it also affects barricades? That's harsh!). But if you get two or more, it's basically gg. At higher level, not being able to place traps means you're gonna loose very fast. And beside, Chaos Trials are supposed to make you play differently; not being able to place wall and floor traps is not playing differently, it's just a chore and not fun. OMD without traps isn't great, as anyone would imagine... :)
    - Armor mods: those are great, since they make you use different traps and heroes. But when you have 3 or 4, it's not fun anymore. Also, Physical Armor is very annoying, since most traps and heroes deal physical damage. There's just not enough elemental traps (especially lightning and ice) to play around it. At higher level, using an element minions are resistant to just isn't possible; they seem to take absolutely no damage.
    - Rift protection: Good modifier, but impossible on shorter maps, as it's been mentioned already. Maybe make it not that long? I don't know, the mod is fun, it makes you place your killbox farther from the gates, which is what CT should do: make you play differently. But this one doesn't work well on some maps, which is a shame.
    - One Rift Point: This one's just bullshit. It would be better if it was changed to, for example, half riftpoints. Making the game more difficult but not unfair. Still, not a great design.
    - Gear disabled: Another one that's poorly designed, I think. Doesn't make you play differently, it just removes a mechanic. Feels cheap.
    - More X minions: Great, but annoying when you get the really big one. I've lost several time because I got "additional mountain giants", and they were just too strong for a level 1 hero with almost no traps on the early waves. Honestly, adding only one giant would be bad enough. :)
    - Primary knockback: Veeeeery annoying, especially since it's active half the time and you can never know when it's gonna hit. After a point, you absolutely need your hero damage to win a wave, especially the early ones, and this mod makes your hero at least 50% less effective.
    - Camera freeze: Never got this one, but god does it sound annoying! :)


    My modifiers suggestions :

    Negative:
    - Double Rift Point Cost: every minion entering the rift costs double RP. Could replace "1 Riftpoint"?
    - Heavy Riftpoints: small minions cost as many Riftpoints as large minions.
    - Unstable Death: An unstable rift appears every time a hero dies, exactly where they died.
    - Determined Hunters: hunter minions actively chase the heroes, even if they would normally be too far to aggro them. They'll never enter the rift as long as a hero is alive on the map.
    - Shielded Minions: Some minions are replaced by their shielded counterpart (trolls by shielded trolls...).
    - Bigger Minions: some minions are replaced by their heavier counterpart (Small orcs by medium orcs, medium soldiers by heavy soldiers, trolls by mountain trolls...).
    - Opposite Day: Elemental weakness of minions is inverted (fire to ice, ice to fire).
    - Elemental Strike: Every elemental splits into one more smaller elemental (earth elementals split into 3 earthlings, for example).
    - No Rift Heal: The rift doesn't heal anymore. (Should it also affect Cygnus' mini rifts? It would be a bit harsh to penalize one specific hero like that.)
    - No Environmental Traps: Traps that are part of the map (like the boulder dispensers) are emptied from the start of the match.
    - Tiny Little Heavies: Heavy minions are half-sized, making them harder to see and target. Imagine it, tiny ogres everywhere!
    - Healing Minions: Every minions can heal after a while, just like trolls.
    - Enraged Minions: Every minions will run and attack faster when under 50% HP, just like giants.

    Positive:
    - Increased Trap Range: Traps have +1 range (arrow walls now have a 4 tile range, for example).
    - Fast Attacks: Primary attacks are faster.
    - Healing Barricades: Barricades heal a percentage of their HP each second/each wave.
    - Stronger Environmental Traps: Traps that are part of the map (like the boulder dispensers) deal more damage.
    - Buff Guardians: Guardians have more HP/more DPS
    - Fire/Ice/Lightning/Arcane Strength: minions take more damage from Fire/Ice/Lightning/Arcane. The opposite of armor mods...

    Neutral:
    - Elemental Madness: All physical damages reduced. All elemental damage increased.
    - Mechanic's Aura: Traps deal more damage around the hero, but less damage everywhere else.
    - Back Home: The paths are inverted: minions spawn at the rift, and you lose Riftpoints when they reach the gates. (This one might be a little crazy to code, but it would be an interesting change, wouldn't it? :))
    - Armored Rifts: Unstable Rifts take reduced damages from heros, but increased damage from traps.


    I wanted to add negative modifiers concerning guardians, but I've found that they're already quite pitiful already in high level Chaos Trials. In Rift Lord CT, I usually use them to help me deal with the very hard first few waves, and they rarely survive the very first one. Too many additional minions... :(
  • SeferofeSeferofe Member
    @Donnerstag Most of these seem really awesome. Though with the unstable rift on death it might be good if the rift spawns at the last stable area, rather than exactly where the hero died. After all, what would be the point if it spawned in water because the hero wanted a swim?

    Regarding the guardians dieing too quickly, do you use the Quarter Master and Jailer minion? They're great since they seem to last the longest out of all of them. Especially the Quarter Master as minions deal half damage when he's in combat.
  • Seferofe said:
    @Donnerstag Most of these seem really awesome. Though with the unstable rift on death it might be good if the rift spawns at the last stable area, rather than exactly where the hero died. After all, what would be the point if it spawned in water because the hero wanted a swim?

    Regarding the guardians dieing too quickly, do you use the Quarter Master and Jailer minion? They're great since they seem to last the longest out of all of them. Especially the Quarter Master as minions deal half damage when he's in combat.
    Yes, of course. This one, and some others, might also be a little tricky to implement code-wise. And beside, the minions coming from those Rifts should also grant no coin, or it would be an easy way to add as many minions as you want to a wave and reap the benefits. As long as you don't have "Rift Point loss on death" or "merc spawn on death"...

    Also, didn't try the Quarter Master, I'll give it a go next time. I'll admit I still have a tendency to place Guardians at home by default instead of choosing the right one for the job. :)
  • LunaSlingLunaSling Member
    edited July 3

    My 2 cents on current mods:

    No-Go breaks - Bad... very bad modifier. It's like instant defeat for anyone without a good computer. Instead of starting the waves right after loading, how about allowing the player/s to ready up just like normal. The difference is that when they have this modifier, the Heroes cannot move until the game starts. This way, the idea behind the mod still holds and people with slow computers can bypass the initial lag right after loading, while those like me, with retarded reflexes, can get our footing... at least face the right direction and move towards the correct gate.

    3x Barricades + 2x Floor - Mentioned many times by many people... I think having 3x Barricades override 2x Floor is best... 6x barricade price is just like saying "give up this key and try something else"

    Spawn Protection - I am not sure about this, but it seem that this mod also affects mini-gnolls of the Breeder and elemental splits... When I got this mod, the Breeder become like 10x more troublesome than he already was and the smaller elementals seems much tougher than usual... it could be me over-reacting, but I personally don't think Spawn Protection should affect minions that spawn from other sources.

    More Health/Mana/Unchained drops - These are NOT positive modifiers. These are actually bad things in disguise, because they always come with Ogre Spudge sooner or later. 


    My suggestions for new mods:

    Climates: (something like Friar and Weapon wright aura, it just affects all heroes)
    Arcane Breakout - Adds Arcane damage to the hero's primary attack
    Lightning Tempest - Adds Lightning damage...
    Infernal Fire - Adds Fire damage...
    Icy Hell - Adds Ice damage...

    Guardians:
    Decoy Guardians - Guardians deal no damage, gives no aura.
    Everywhere is Home - Guardian at any location is "at home" with bonus HP and Attack.
  • DonnerstagDonnerstag Member
    edited July 3
    LunaSling said:

    My suggestions for new mods:

    Climates: (something like Friar and Weapon wright aura, it just affects all heroes)
    Arcane Breakout - Adds Arcane damage to the hero's primary attack
    Lightning Tempest - Adds Lightning damage...
    Infernal Fire - Adds Fire damage...
    Icy Hell - Adds Ice damage...

    Guardians:
    Decoy Guardians - Guardians deal no damage, gives no aura.
    Everywhere is Home - Guardian at any location is "at home" with bonus HP and Attack.
    I had the same idea for the primary elemental change. When you say "add", you mean "replace", right? Like, with the "Infernal Fire" modifier, for example, Maximilian's primary attack would deal fire damage instead of lightning?
    The reason I ended up not including it in my list is because it would be very bad with the elemental armor mods. Imagine minions get the fire armor, and ALL your heroes now deal fire damage. You can't really play around the armor now...

    Your "Everywhere at home" modifier would be great. But how would "Decoy Guardian" work? You simply place them and they stall some minions until they die, probably after half a wave? I fear it would make the guardians nearly useless. :)
    Though we could add a mod which make the guardian unable to deal or receive damage, but still give their aura. It would be fun, since guardian would not be as useful, but on the other hand you now have auras you can place anywhere, that won't get your killbox destroyed, and will last the whole match. ("Invisible Guardians"?)
  • sashimiaksashimiak Member, Moderator, Robot Entertainment
    You've been sharing some awesome feedback and ideas here guys, keep it coming! Harmonia has pinned the thread and everything will be passed along to the team.
    German Community Manager
  • LunaSlingLunaSling Member
    LunaSling said:

    My suggestions for new mods:

    Climates: (something like Friar and Weapon wright aura, it just affects all heroes)
    Arcane Breakout - Adds Arcane damage to the hero's primary attack
    Lightning Tempest - Adds Lightning damage...
    Infernal Fire - Adds Fire damage...
    Icy Hell - Adds Ice damage...

    Guardians:
    Decoy Guardians - Guardians deal no damage, gives no aura.
    Everywhere is Home - Guardian at any location is "at home" with bonus HP and Attack.
    I had the same idea for the primary elemental change. When you say "add", you mean "replace", right? Like, with the "Infernal Fire" modifier, for example, Maximilian's primary attack would deal fire damage instead of lightning?
    The reason I ended up not including it in my list is because it would be very bad with the elemental armor mods. Imagine minions get the fire armor, and ALL your heroes now deal fire damage. You can't really play around the armor now...

    Your "Everywhere at home" modifier would be great. But how would "Decoy Guardian" work? You simply place them and they stall some minions until they die, probably after half a wave? I fear it would make the guardians nearly useless. :)
    Though we could add a mod which make the guardian unable to deal or receive damage, but still give their aura. It would be fun, since guardian would not be as useful, but on the other hand you now have auras you can place anywhere, that won't get your killbox destroyed, and will last the whole match. ("Invisible Guardians"?)
    It is actually add, not replace.
    I don't have the Friar, so I cannot say for him, but with Weapon-wright Guardian, the burning effect is added to primary attack without losing the original element. Using Max with the Guardian (in combat), shots that do not kill minions set them on fire; shots that kills the minions shows the electric-effect that splashes AOE lightning damage.

    As for Decoy Guardian, it's suppose to be negative: An alternative of "No Guardian". I think of making them act like decoys, which is almost as bad... at least they can stall for a little... I think this is better than just removing the whole guardian feature.

    Anyway, from what I know, those "In Combat" auras only work when the guardian is fighting. There must be minions nearby to put the guardian "in combat" to give the buff. Same thing with "Out of Combat" auras: Shield guardians don't heal the player when they are fighting. Therefore, having invincible guardians that deal no damage and draws no aggro... seems a little awkward.
  • axiswolfstaraxiswolfstar Member, Early Access
    edited July 3
    Two modifiers I think would be fun / hard to run would be:

    Personality disorder: every wave you change which character you are.  If playing in a party you switch between the other players.  If solo, you switch between all of the heroes that you own.

    Thoughts on that - may help promote team play because with that modifier teams may start planning on who brings what.  Gives a chance for players to experience playing another character if they don't have one that a team mate is running.

    Identity mismatch: Your hero now has the body / appearance of a different hero and random skin. 

    Thoughts on that - Most people are used to seeing their character run a certain way. (for example I am used to playing an Ivy that is a skinny hippy chick)   Can you imagine playing as midnight - who looks like a dobbin? or maybe you picked Ivy to play, and get to see bloodspike with the bow and arrows. This one pretty much switches out all of the skills, abilities and weavers with the physical mapping of another character.  Not sure how feasible this one would be from a programming perspective.  But I think, if possible, it would be hilarious.
  • TheetisTheetis Member
    Wow, it feels great to have my thread pinned :D Thanks Harmonia!
    SnipahShot said:
    Wait.. What? Hunting traps are not used often? I rather throw away my ceiling ballista rather than give up my hunting ballista. Getting rid of mercs and bosses fast is a must. I have at least 3 hunting ballista in every match.
    I would be amused when you get a bugged iMage also, good luck with that without a hunting trap :-/

    It's just my observation, I rarely ever see people using any BGH traps. I do personally carry my BGH Ballistas along most of the time though.

    Expensive barricades and floor traps - I suggest making the Expensive barricades mod override the expensive floor traps, making barricades x3 and other floor traps x2.

    Expensive Physics Traps - It is a bad name I think. I think it affects physical damage traps.

    It does affect only traps that push, throw minions, such as Flip Traps or Floor Scorcher. 

    No go breaks - Matches don't start until every player is connected, it has nothing to do with the go break after the match starts.
    There's the problem - matches can actually start before people are fully connected. The server indeed considers them connected, but some of them can still be stuck on the loading screen, or like me, have to wait out textures to fully render because the FPS drop to 0 until they all render. That's why I suggest it to remove all breaks except the one before the very first wave (like heck that's not even a break by definition).

    Camera Freeze - Try getting your health back up with gear disabled. Shooting with the camera frozen? How about you were shooting down the stairs and now you are looking at the floor while walking anywhere. One of the worst possible mods in my opinion and the under 50% HP damage increase always comes with this mod, if not in the same time then a bit later.

    Well, there are Healing Wells or traits that can provide you slight HP regeneration. Also an Oziel with his healing upgrade, Ivy or Gabriella with her healing charm upgrade. As I said, I haven't yet had this mod, so I don't have that much insight into it. I don't play sabotage either, so I didn't really get to see how it works in practice. 

    Spudge Drops - Doesn't work with Bloodspike's meals.
    By the way, here are two things that seem off with two mods:

    Mercenaries spawning after death of a hero seem to disable itself after some deaths. I've been playing Ivy, and, well, due to cyclops mages I died A LOT. However the mercenaries just stopped spawning after any deaths at some point. 

    Also, with Persistant Rubble, if we happen to fight while standing on the Cade Rubble, the commentator says that our barricades have been destroyed. Gets kinda annoying after a while. 
  • rayleiraylei Member
    edited August 15
    Suggestions:

    For some laughs. Some serious ones and some jokes ones.

    Positive:
    1.Negative Modfider Removal: remove a random negative Modifier. If there is no negative modifier, you get a negative one. Wait what?
    2.Coin Rain: coins rain drop from the sky. OP
    3.Mana Storm: mana rain op. Rip graphic card though op.
    4.Combo+1:+1 combo points for each minion kills.
    5.Death Star: Our dear Rift attacks minions once again.
    6.Shiny Armor: allow players to use those OP golden armor skins for free for some heroes.
    7.Right place at the Right time: Teleport a random player to the rift party room if there are too many orcs in the room.
    8.All traps tier 7:  Change all the trap tiers of your traps to 1.
    9.Brb: Reduce hero spawn time by 50%.
    10.Take your time: Now minions don't Rift Rush if a hero dies nearby them.

    Negative:
    1.Positive Modfider Removal: remove a random positive modifier. If there is no positive modifier, you get a negative one. rip
    2.OMDUD: Unchained Disable. GG
    3.No guardians: they went on vacations.
    4.Shorter Waves: minions come earlier like endless instead of spawning after we clear a wave.
    5.Lousy music: Play Max's personal album as the background music.
    6.Traps friendly-fire: I cannot imagine this. 
    7.Not allowed to sell traps: No communication GG?
    8.No to everything: Just left click. Time to uninstall. 
    9.No music effect: this can be devastating. Trust me.
    10.Life Force: Use abilities costs life instead.
    11.Get on your discord: No typing allows.
    12.No quitter: you lose if you leave/dc. Time to tell everyone else to uninstall.
    13.Wrong Door: teleport to the wrong place if we use those short cut doors in the maps.
    14.Early Celebration: Dance for 5 seconds during the transition of the waves.
    15. Heat Vision: Lose visible light spectrum. We see the infrared spectrum of the environment instead.
    16. We are Equal: Disable traits.
    17. False Intelligence: Indicate the wrong map for the key. GG.
    18. Wrong place at the wrong time: Players get teleported into the final trajectory of the bombers sometimes.
    19. Right Place at the wrong time: Sometimes orcs from the other waves, spawns as the addition enemies to some other waves for the corresponding portal which they normally spawn from.
    20. Wrong place at the right time: During each wave, minions spawn from a different portal instead of the default one.
    21. No GPS: Disable minimap.
    22. No more Free Pass: Disable free pass modifier for higher tier key.
    23. It is not Fashion show: Disable skins.
    24. All traps tier 1: Change all the trap tiers of your traps to 1.
    25. Random Negative Modifier: a random negative modifier, what it does can only be seen in the game.

    sashimiak Plz have some laugh. 
    Post edited by raylei on
    So this is how we add small words under our post/comments.
  • Good afternoon,

    after playing Chaos Trials quite extensively with some very good results, I wanted to throw my two bits in. While I love a little RNG and the fact that certain mod combinations can make map nigh-impossible to beat, I feel there are some mods are making the keys much harder on their own, no matter what are other conditions, without counterplay. In my understanding, mods should not simply make the challenge harder, but rather force the player to use different heroes, trap or gear setups, forcing him to be flexible in his choices. While many mods like Armor, Cooldown or Celebratory Dance already do that quite well, others seem to limit the player's possibilities more than encourage change. Below I will list the mods that, in my opinion, could be improved. Note that most of the suggested solutions are for the player's benefit, so the difficulty curve would go down (could perhaps be balanced by reducing the number of free passes).

    Expensive Traps:

    Currently the trap categories are a bit messed up for the sake of these modifiers - some being much more restrictive than the others. The overall feeling is that instead of forcing the player to adapt and pick a different set of traps, they force the player to abandon a category of traps altogether.

    - as others have suggested before - expensive Floor traps probably shouldn't include barricades (especially considering the existence of a separate trait - Expensive Barricades).
    - to make the Buffs category more balanced compared to the other categories, slowing traps (Tar, Viscous Tar, Web Spinner, Temple Alarm Gong) could be added to it, while being excluded from their previous categories. Moreover, an Expensive Buffs/Afflictions chaos modifier could be created.
    - it feels unnecessary to have these multiply the costs by more than 2 - with x2 the player is still able to place the traps he wants by contributing more (possibly by using gold generation traps to cover the expenses), x3 blocks the usage completely apart from some key barricades.
     
    Persistent Rubble:
    The modifier already punishes the players by taking up important trap/barricade space, but it feels illogical for the trap rubble to take up trap limit space.

    - if possible, exclude rubble from the trap count.

    No Go-breaks:
    While the modifier a fine idea, it is probably too harsh on pick-up groups and solo players on some maps.

    - to make it better for everyone - leave the starting Go-Break intact - so that's slower computers, disconnects and unorganized play aren't so disadvantaged.
    - when a Go-Break is removed, the time between waves should be 10 seconds as in between normal waves, rather than 3 seconds.

    Gear Disabled:
    The mod isn't harsh at all on it's own, but tends to limit player's possibilities, which doesn't feel good. For example: rolling Celebratory Dance can be countered by clever usage of the Freedom Trinket.

    - second gear slot disabled or double gear cooldown

    Additional Minions:
    Some heroes are better than the others at dealing with certain threats - therefore correct analysis of the minion mods should lead to picking a certain hero to maximize the player's chances.

    - while most of these work as intended - two big minions, a pack of runners, four dangerous creatures - I have found the Additional Shield Trolls to be the sole outlier - they are big minions coming in a bigger number and are worth a huge number of rift points as a group. Reducing their number to 4 per wave from 6 would bring the modifier's power level in line with other minion mods.

    Additional Mercenaries:
    Mercenaries bring different threats with themselves and in some maps it makes a huge difference to roll ones that the player's hero is particularly strong or weak against. More variety would prevent extreme situations.

    - make consecutive mercenary spawns unique

    Primary Knockback:
    It is counter-intuitive to be knocked back by the projectiles that were shot when the debuff wasn't yet active. Surely, the player can take the time passed between the debuffs into account to guess when another one is coming, but it doesn't feel right at all.

    - make Primary Knockback effect proc only on missiles shot after it was activated

    Drain:
    The drain mechanics are generally good, but they shouldn't be working during Go-Breaks.

    - stop draining during Go-Breaks (it is tedious to have your camera frozen while placing starting traps because your health has fallen to 50%)

    Coin Drain:
    Coin drain deserves it's own category as the most annoying mod in the game - pretty much combining all around Expensive Traps and no Go-Breaks into one. Apart from draining the initial funds (once again making it harder for low-spec machines and connections) it forces the player to constantly spend his last dime and cut the Go-Breaks short. The only (although semi-effective) counter to the mod is keeping your gold low at all times. The player would expect to be able to counter this using gold traps, but it isn't exactly the case.

    - replace coin drain with a pauper modifier (reduce gold dropped by minions by a percentage)
    - make coin drain a debuff like the one in sabotage (on a regular time basis like primary knockback)
  • TimeMasterTimeMaster Member, Early Access
    After playing quite a few Rift Lord Chaos Trials and have completed several Tier 12 too, I have some concerns about some of the modifiers.

    First of all, I mostly Agree with Narkh.

    Coin Drain is absolute hell. I don't think it's well balanced.

    Being a drain that is based on % of current coins, it's way too strong. I don't even know how it is balanced for different party sizes but I bet that even though on paper being the same amount of coins drained for 1 or 3 players, having the available coins split in 3 makes it way harder to spend, and almost impossible when paired with expensive traps.

    The coin income isn't constant, which makes this modifier absolutely OP. Pretty much Forces you to just randomly place traps near you (as a bank of coins) to sell them in the breaks if you want to place them properly or in a new lane. That feels quite ridiculous for being the best counter play.

    I second the idea of making it a debuff based on time like the knockback modifier or the healing aura. Or instead of drain, make it a negate of coin income (like the sabotage consumable) for some seconds every now and then.
    Or even better, make it an aura like the healing, that minions dying inside of it don't give any coins.
    Or a funny one, make that all the coin income is dropped in form of coins and you have to pick it up instead of directly receiving it.

    Gear disable is very annoying.

    I really like the idea of just disabling one of the slots or making the cooldowns longer instead. Or both, and we have another modifier :) 

    Drains and Go-breaks should indeed have some kind of exception for building times. They are pretty annoying at the start of the matches.

    Rubble needs some tweaking and fixing. It makes heroes stutter/get stuck when walking over them, pickups can't be picked when they are on top of them, trap count, sounds of barricades being attacked...

    Camera freeze is annoying but can be countered with healing traits, consumables, wells, gear. Spudge is Okay now imo.

    The rest are fine for me. Being expensive traps, spawn protection and rift points loss on death the hardest ones, Mercenaries sometimes too, which can make you lose easily when paired with several annoying ones or certain map/modifiers combos.

    But I'm still having quite a lot of fun on the high tiers of the Rift Lord Chaos Trials. Below Tier 8 feels quite a bit trivial for a maxed account or atleast for me unless it's an insanely bad combo of modifiers. I wish we could have a Key for lvl 100 which starts being really challenging :P, I'll keep dreaming but I love the mode (at high tiers).
  • I've played OMDU for like 1 month right now, I enjoy the game and I feel sorry for people involved in this game. You do so much more then most of other studios in terms of community things and this doesn't pay off in player count. So here is what I think about Modifiers. 

    So I find modifiers like "X traps cost more" or "Y trap deal less damage" boring and lazy but easy and fast to implement. But I adore ones like "Camera movement disabled" and "Dance after mencenary's and boss' death" cool.
    I also dislike the "Free pass". It may be suprising but i do. Instead of this I'd rather get some "neutral" modifier. I don't play Chaos Trials to replay the same stuff over and over. Once I had "Free pass" like 3 times in a row.

    So here are my ideas. Most is pretty "neutral" or "not straight up negative" in my opinion:

     - Broken Mirror/Seeing Doubles: Every medium and large minion (not kobolds and satyrs because this would be hell) have also a copy of it self next to original. Copy that would not obey phisics, would not trigger traps and would not take any damage. Its only purpose would be to confuse player. (It would be literraly copy of a pose of a minion, but for instance 2 feet to the left)
    I'm not an expert but if model doesn't have to run all the physics calculations and doesnt have hitbox, it shouldn't use up that much processor power.  

      - Core Flu: Sometimes, randomly during the trial the "Enemy entered the core"-sound would play and then show current core life. And I don't mean narrator saying this, but sound. (For narrator I got other one) That should make the player go: "Wait, what went through?!" even more then usual. (With the "Core flu" i mean that core would "sneeze" and make that sound. Just wanted to clear out this one)

     -  Wrong Srcript: Instead of saying right quotes like "Barricades are under attack" narrator would say random one like "Only half rift points remaining".

     - Orcs no Shower Month: After staying for instance 3 sec to close to enemy minion the strange screen effects would start appearing like fisheye effect or that wave-like effect.
     
     - Thin Air Diet: Player could jump higher and phisics traps would throw enemies further and harder. Technically lower gravity mode. It would be cool to see orcs launching their own Space Travel Program. Speaking of which...

    - The Arms Day: When enemy minions attack, the player is knocked back/up. So I'm mentioning this one only because of the combo with previous one. heh...

     - The Backup Arrived!: Randomly at the start of the wave, friendly pride hunters may be sent to the open gates and help player fight. With this a mean minions with Pride Hunters AI and passing through barricade, but going opposite direction and attacking enemy minions.

     - Big Head - Big Brain. Right?: Models have bigger heads. 

     - Costume Party: Minions and players can have random alternative models/skins.

     - Backward Day: Models are turned around. How stupid would this look like...

    So thank you for attention and as I said, I'd rather get some neutral modifier then "Free pass".

  • LunaSling said:
    ...
    Spawn Protection - I am not sure about this, but it seem that this mod also affects mini-gnolls of the Breeder and elemental splits... When I got this mod, the Breeder become like 10x more troublesome than he already was and the smaller elementals seems much tougher than usual... it could be me over-reacting, but I personally don't think Spawn Protection should affect minions that spawn from other sources.
    ...
    Yes, Spawn Protection is granting protection to the Breeder's gnolls and to elementals that have split.  It is also seems to be providing protection to unstable rifts.  One BGHB isn't enough to take out an unstable rift with spawn protection.

    Spawn protection + maps with lots of earth elementals = difficult

    Spawn protection + maps with lots of earth elementals + <coin drain/expensive barricades/expensive physics>= GG

    ~~~

    Since this is an idea thread, I will offer a few:

    Rental parts - All traps have rental parts applied - half cost, can't be sold and disappear after 2 waves. (please don't pair with no go breaks or coin drain)

    Temporary Weather effects - Rain might disable fire traps while enhancing lightning and ice traps; Dust storms might obscure vision and disable physics traps (grit in the gears); Solar flare might burn heros not under roofs; Blizzard might obscure vision and add frozen stacks to everything; Solar eclipse/night might make the map go dark and only be illuminated by torches or fire/arcane traps that generate light.

    Alternate reality - movement generates momentum.  Heros don't stop running immediately.  Like a boat on a lake, they will drift a bit while slowing to a stop after moving.  This would work best if it's not too strong an effect.

    Ranged Aggro - minions only aggro on ranged heros


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