Oziel patch 2.3 changes - what do you guys think about them so far?

I'm really interested in hearing what you guys think about him right now.

So far, I really like the changes, he feels way more useful early on, even though you cannot use his E for quite some time, I didn't really notice his damage dropping off later in the game and it feels more useful to invest weaver upgrades into his E as its cooldown was removed. I had games where it was permanently active. Just one thing, his character description still says that he collects souls to increase his strength and maximum mana. It would be nice if this could be updated.

Have a nice day! :)
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Comments

  • TimeMasterTimeMaster Member, Early Access
    edited July 27
    Hero Description and skill descriptions are outdated.

    And there is a known bug about the amount of souls disappearing. Also known bugs with the Quests and Achievements.

    I'm not sure if I like the idea of the souls having as cap the same amount as the needed for using the ability. Having 2, 3 or 4x the amount needed for using the spirits could have been interesting. Maybe even keeping the mana/boosts of skills with the amount of souls so you have something to min-max and micro around, rather than just be on 75 or using the skill.

    About his overall gameplay, I haven't tried properly yet, but @Wynardtage should be able to give a more complete feedback since he has been playing Oziel a lot last months.
  • Oziel feels more powerful early on, which is nice and was the intended goal of this redesign.

    His passive feels a bit lazy on the devs' part, though; it doesn't give you anything more than the others characters, quite the opposite actually; every character can use their Epic ability at any time, except for Oziel who has to charge it. And since you can't ever go over 75 souls, it doesn't really feel like a bonus. Stealing souls is a great concept, very cool, but right now it feels underwhelming since it's only used to unlock one of Oziel's abilities... :(
  • LemartesLemartes Member, Early Access, Apprentice Founder
    I don't really like him.
    I think you could get stronger before by about mid game.

    I also don't like that his souls stop at 75 - so you are pretty much stuck using his E when ready or you lose a lot of his ability.

    His slow, single shot seems out of place in this game.  I think he needs a complete rework to be usable.
  • I'll be straight to the point. I enjoyed how the old oziel worked because he was, while somewhat challenging, he was unique and somewhat fun. With the new patch i feel like the new oziel is just.. indifferent compared to other heroes. It doesn't feel like he stands out anymore now that he starts off roughly on the same level as everyone else.
  • ElSolElSol Member
    After playing just a few rounds I am half way happy with this change. I got why they changed him, cause he got uber strong in longer games and he was weak in the first waves. But now he becomes/feels realy weak at about the middle of the game. And thats because of the 75 souls stack limit. I think if that goes away, he keeps collecting his souls but always uses 75 souls when he uses his E that would be a fair deal. Cause now he can't, like ALL the other Heroes, use his skills, go unchained and use them again. His E won't work. And the way I use some of the E skills on some charakters, and I did with him, was kind of a "oh no, oh no, I need power!"

    I think, maybe, I don't know, maybe a better change would have been just to cap how much more mana and stuff he got out of the stacks, or do something like Bloodspike has with his little piggy eating. That you got a weaver later on, that lets you gain more power from the souls.

    He feels stronger now in the beginning, will be easier on newer players, but if you knew the power he could get, well, it is not so great.
  • You definitely have a point there. Having that soul cap and no direct rewards for collecting them isn't all that nice considering that's been the core of his character, atleast for me. Though I like to think of it as him collecting power from his enemies as fuel for his ultimate attack. I'm thinking that increasing the cap might be good since you can choose to store souls to get multiple E activations after another without investing in all the soul upgrades. Perhaps you could make it so that he literally unleashes the collected souls and that the amount of the haunting spirits is relative to the amount of collected souls. How about a toggle ability which slowly drains the souls to give him the active effect? 

    Anyways, I do think there should be some reason to further collect souls and they shouldn't be completely useless after 75. However, I still think that this was a step in the right direction. Both the interesting and frustrating aspects about him were reduced, so now we might me able to add more interesting stuff without frustrating things. I mean stuff like having a power curve that is so highly dependend on his soul stacks was sometimes really frustrating, atleast for me. Not only do you have little mana and damage at the beginning, but I felt discouraged from picking him on most big maps because I always thought about how many souls I'd lose and how much weaker he'd be compared to others. Also, his mobility is an additional issue on big maps. I think right now it is a good thing that you don't get punished as hard for not collecting souls, for example when you have to make the decision between risking death for more souls or playing safe and getting less. For me, it feels nice that I don't have to make lose/lose decision that often.

    Well, we'll see what happens to him in the future, I still think he is interesting and fun to play, I'd just like to see more uses for his souls. Perhaps they could be an alternate resource for his abilities? Like, he throws a bunch of souls together with his desecrated cask to deal additional damage? Do you think it would be a good idea if he'd use mana to activate abilities and a few souls to empower them? This might feel bad because you get limited if you don't think the empowering effect is worth it and those souls would get wasted, though. Well, still better than sitting at 75 and using E on regular orcs or wait for something worthy to spawn.
  • xciencexcience Member, Early Access
    Making him go Unchained definitely needs to refresh his haunt.

    Considering his main role and the game was deleting Hi-Health large units this needs to be brought back. His right-click needs to have some component that gives him a little bit of oomph. Maybe something compelling to do is as previously stated by other people allow the Soul Stacks to be greater and have his right click damage scale off of them. This would provide a compelling reason to either use haunt to clear waves or save souls to kill large units.
  • ShadeDevShadeDev Member, Robot Entertainment, Early Access, Apprentice Founder, Featured Developer
    edited July 28
    You definitely have a point there. Having that soul cap and no direct rewards for collecting them isn't all that nice considering that's been the core of his character, atleast for me. Though I like to think of it as him collecting power from his enemies as fuel for his ultimate attack. I'm thinking that increasing the cap might be good since you can choose to store souls to get multiple E activations after another without investing in all the soul upgrades. Perhaps you could make it so that he literally unleashes the collected souls and that the amount of the haunting spirits is relative to the amount of collected souls. How about a toggle ability which slowly drains the souls to give him the active effect? 

    Anyways, I do think there should be some reason to further collect souls and they shouldn't be completely useless after 75. However, I still think that this was a step in the right direction. Both the interesting and frustrating aspects about him were reduced, so now we might me able to add more interesting stuff without frustrating things. I mean stuff like having a power curve that is so highly dependend on his soul stacks was sometimes really frustrating, atleast for me. Not only do you have little mana and damage at the beginning, but I felt discouraged from picking him on most big maps because I always thought about how many souls I'd lose and how much weaker he'd be compared to others. Also, his mobility is an additional issue on big maps. I think right now it is a good thing that you don't get punished as hard for not collecting souls, for example when you have to make the decision between risking death for more souls or playing safe and getting less. For me, it feels nice that I don't have to make lose/lose decision that often.

    Well, we'll see what happens to him in the future, I still think he is interesting and fun to play, I'd just like to see more uses for his souls. Perhaps they could be an alternate resource for his abilities? Like, he throws a bunch of souls together with his desecrated cask to deal additional damage? Do you think it would be a good idea if he'd use mana to activate abilities and a few souls to empower them? This might feel bad because you get limited if you don't think the empowering effect is worth it and those souls would get wasted, though. Well, still better than sitting at 75 and using E on regular orcs or wait for something worthy to spawn.
    Good feedback.  I am currently testing increasing his soul cap to 300.  This also adds an interesting option for the player, since stacks are lost on death.
    Post edited by ShadeDev on
    Doug Houserman
    Robot Entertainment | Lead Balance Designer
  • HypovolemicHypovolemic Member
    edited July 28
    Well, we'll see what happens to him in the future, I still think he is interesting and fun to play, I'd just like to see more uses for his souls. Perhaps they could be an alternate resource for his abilities? Like, he throws a bunch of souls together with his desecrated cask to deal additional damage? Do you think it would be a good idea if he'd use mana to activate abilities and a few souls to empower them? This might feel bad because you get limited if you don't think the empowering effect is worth it and those souls would get wasted, though. Well, still better than sitting at 75 and using E on regular orcs or wait for something worthy to spawn.
    Honestly, I don't think he needs a mana bar at all anymore. He could just spend either health or souls to use his abilities. Then a soul bar could replace his mana bar, which would fix some UI issues with him. Also, given that he no longer has an actual passive ability, his passive could just be giving all his damage lifesteal, which could feed into the idea of him spending health on abilities...
  • LocutosLocutos Member
    I was actually excited after reading the patch notes, until i played with him... big disapointment.
    - left click feels really weak now, can't see the big yellow numbers till late game, and only while using E (and basic attack deals more damage)
    - buff vanishing after (maybe first) use
    - daily asking for 100 stacks and the max is 75

    I actually felt very weak from start to finish, I had no problems the way he was before the patch, maybe he just needed a limit for stacks  back then? I don't understand these changes.
  • TGGETGGE Member
    compared to when i played him in the beta he is 1000x weaker which i know was the point of him to be nerfed but when he was op and in games i was doing more damage at the start of the game than what i am doing now... which is kinda dissapointing considering you are saying he is stronger at the begining of the game now. Also i feel like he just dosnt have any point now in the game intil mid game but even then why would you pick him over another hero when his ult will hardly be up and another heros will be he is just kinda dead and even in suvival he is usless i would rather play max over him....
  • I like the new Oziel, although I agree the Unchain should give him his E immediately. If you removed his Mana bar, and replaced it with a 'Souls' bar, that's an interesting idea, but if his soul cap was increased to 300 (as per ShadeDev's comment) then doesn't that mean you'd be able to haunt 4 times straight away (one after another)? Essence Siphon would also need a re-work (trade Souls for health?!).
    "Blessed are those that Unchain, for they shall inherit the GIBS"
  • LemartesLemartes Member, Early Access, Apprentice Founder
    I would like to see Oz get a faster attack - on par with Gab would be good.

    Also now that he doesn't grow in power his right click isn't that great - how about turning this into an AoE - like deadeye's bomb.

    His jar would be cool if it was a mini E - where some souls flew around and haunted stuff.

    The soul stealing gimmick should just go at this point - just put his E on a cooldown.

  • I second Hypovolemic's idea: remove Oziel's mana bar and make his abilities consume life instead. It would be very simple but would make the character much more fun and unique to play. I proposed the same idea in my thread about passives: https://forums.orcsmustdie.com/discussion/13869/lets-talk-about-passives. In addition to the mana bar removal, I suggested that Oziel's soul stealing could regen his life.

    Right now Oziel has two resources to manage in order to use his abilities: Mana and Soul stacks. It's completely unnecessary to have one resource for just one skill and another one for the rest of them.
  • ScifiToiletScifiToilet Member
    edited July 30
    half assed.

    In the dev note, Oz was originally designed for another version of the game and that structure doesnt fit with the current game.  Personally i just thought the Oz was never rewarded for collecting souls, he started as orc and then became mediocre no matter how many souls were collected.  I think the simple fix was just let the souls scale.

    But thats not what happened.  He got a half baked change, which i guess is par for the course. Here is what was left and should be changed.
    • The entire mana dependency aspect.  With the change the his mana structure, why is anything based upon his max mana.  Why is profane healing weaver heal dependent on mana. wraith surge still requires more mana as you stack them, but with fixed mana this feels like you double punish his max potential.  Who cares if hes level over9000, he can still only shoot the wraith surge X times.
    • The shift ability is out of place.  The mana change makes this feel out of place.  The change to the passive makes this a totally different hero not focused on mana management and improving the mana pool.  .
    • A mana regeneration weaver too?  .....why?????  He already has the best mana regen skill.  Why would anyone get that weaver? Even if you coupled with mana siphons for near sustainable mana, then shift ability is useless and so again why???  This hero is not fully thought out. 
    EDIT:
    The mana regen weaver doesnt even work! lmao.  as i stated, half assed.

    Post edited by ScifiToilet on
  • ShadeDevShadeDev Member, Robot Entertainment, Early Access, Apprentice Founder, Featured Developer
    Thanks for the feedback guys, I am looking into additional changes for the next patch.
    Doug Houserman
    Robot Entertainment | Lead Balance Designer
  • BloodessBloodess Member
    Personaly I dont like Oziel or he is just not my favorite. Why? He lack of aoe and control, kobolts gives him nightmares and he is slow as ****. Also he had problem with dmg at start, this was mentioned to be fixed. I dont play him much, so I cant compare numbers. His basic characteristic as soul gatherer need to get use. I am not agains to use it as fuel to his Haunting Spirits ability, but this pushing him back in dmg potential at start of game, since he cant use it as other heroes who start game with cooldown ready.

    Bigger cap for souls sounds good.

    Other option to make his life better:
    -Start with 75 souls 
    -Unchained give him 75 souls
    -Gives him passive bonus or weaver 1 soul / second

    Last time I  play him, I just bring mana well, stand near it and spam wrath, and he can do acceptable dmg.

    I would like to see addresed his speed. Maby add extra speed while holding shift ability?
  • His raised fix base dmg increased his Overall Dmg in Batllegrounds, Sabotage and Chaos Trials.
    But its lowered in Endless. :( 

    His manamanagement feels very bad now, even with tons of manareg in soloplayer games. Hes out of Mana within a few seconds. especially if he wants to take an effort out of his weavers.
    His shift ability converts hp to mp, which spends him additional mana, but he cant do any dmg while using it.
    But he has to use it a lot of time, which means he is a lot of time at low health and can be killed by simple archers etc.

    The Wavers doesnt fit with his new build. Players hat to choose what kind of Dmg they want to do (single Target or AoE)
    The entire T3 Weavers feels unrewarding, because their effect is to low to be a "good" pick or simply against the reason why players use the skill ( Unholy mire). 
    Maybe increase vexing surges soul increasement or change one T4 waever to t3.

    His new soul mechanic doesnt display his actual number of souls after the first usage of his ultimate. The Ultimate Button stays grey until you farmed new 75 souls, but the "counter" stays invisible.



    But most annoying is that he lost his unique playstyle. He had one job/advantage in the past which makes him fun to play with a great Dmg if the player invests enough time in Endless. Now he feels like a rnd hero pick.
    The old Gabby with blink root and the possible combination with blink and mezmerize weaver was awesome as hardline Minion stacker. 
    Perfect to raise the score by high combos to a huge amount of minions. 
    I would like to see unique Heroes which are specialists for different ingame Goals.

  • I like how he doesn't feel horrible at the beginning of the match but I feel like these changes more or less ruined the character composition. In short he is clunky and incohesive. 

    As others pointed out the Soul Stacks now feel tacked on and useless. If anything it is just a frustration preventing him from using his E.

    Beyond just adding the ability to have higher stacks to save up uses of his E there really should be more meaning behind them. Perhaps a damage bonus so you have to choose between more damage or using his E? 

    Additionally this change shouldnt have gone out without changing the achievements.
  • ElSolElSol Member
    I like how he changed now. I guess it was with todays patch @ShadeDev? That he now collects more souls is great. It feels realy good playing him, that you can wait and collect more souls and then when orc hits the fan use your E twice gives him real depth in playstyle. Though I kind of have the feeling he collects more then the 300 Soulstacks that get shown.
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