Pathing changes intended? Minions don't need LOS to know path blocked.

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Comments

  • SpamwagonSpamwagon Member, Master Founder, Early Access
    Fwuffy said:
    Well in which case; it would be nice if pathing was/appeared LoS based as that would be logical, regardless of the backend programming magic necessary to accomplish it.
    I agree wholeheartedly.   Figure out what your game's rules are and then make it happen.   

    You all seem kind of lackadaisical about it - when in fact it what you have said was, "the core rules of the game you thought existed - do NOT, and we will alter things to our whims.  It is up to you to determine what random variable we will throw into the game after every update.  This isn't a game with established rules, it is a child's diversion that we will alter as we see fit, without any semblance of logic."
    Ok, that's like playing a game of "funball' with a 7 year-old who changes the rules every couple of minutes to minimize the other kids playing with him's advantage.

    FIRST DOWN!   "No, sorry.. after the last NFL Quorum (update), it requires 10.75 yards for a first down, and uh... yeah, now you only get 3 downs, but only on THIS field.  The other field over there is 9 downs with 7.8 yards, but of course, it is littered with mines."

    Games should have rules, that's what makes them games instead of just weird thought experiments.
  • I'm ok with giving it rules but since every map is different how would you define that rule. Would it be walk up and touch every barricade before turning around or walk the fastest way to the rift.

    Since the alternative is programing line of sight. Which sounds like a nightmare for a 3d game would also generate a whole load of lag. You could map every individual route but that's what they do with either success or failure (a few bugs in the past bugged up minions).

    In conclusion what ain't broke, don't fix it.
  • AxonyAxony Member
    edited August 2
    But how was it possible that minions get stuck in walls, floors and unreachable places on maps that had no pathing change.

    And is it also intended that Swiftyhooves on Throne room runs like a normal minion then sees the rift through the opening on the bottom right and then decides to do a full turn to run past the priest guardian? i thought he was supposed to run straight to the rift

    Same happens for bomber minions if you build a killbox in the kitchen, they ignore the barricades and follow the minions into the kitchen
  • After this update, my buddy and I have had a lot of trouble with winning matches now. We just started playing the game and we would play on Eventide Stables a lot to farm some quick skulls. But after the update, we've had problems being over run and getting trampled. Not really liking the changes to the pathing...
  • Yes I just played Stables for the first time since the update. It really changes the time you have available to deal with both doors when playing solo. I will now have to barricade/trap that top room in a different manner now.
  • SpamwagonSpamwagon Member, Master Founder, Early Access
    Still would like an official response to this concern.
  • SpamwagonSpamwagon Member, Master Founder, Early Access
    Or continue to be silent @robot.  Not responding to the people who pay your checks is TOTALLY OK.
  • TimeMasterTimeMaster Member, Early Access
    Spamwagon said:
    Or continue to be silent @robot.  Not responding to the people who pay your checks is TOTALLY OK.
    What do you want answer to? your baiting for arguments?

    Game has the rule of pathing by waypoints. Waypoints have been updated/changed for various reasons.

    Be it being too easy the map, unintended behaviour when used specific strategies, making the par time easier, etc.


    Here goes my opinion: Many maps feel like the waypoints have been placed without too much thought about cheesy tactics and exploiting with barricades. Luckily for everyone, not many people has really truly tried tricking them, because I'm pretty sure it can be exploited in quite more insane ways than just having minions do a few blocks back and forth.

    If you want the realism of Line of Sight, why does every single orc have to reach it? Wouldn't it be enough with the first one? Are they Orcs or Lemmings. 

    To create a better ilusion of LoS I guess it would be needed to add quite a lot more waypoints in every single map or change the whole system. I have no clue of what kind of impact any of those have in terms of dev resources, probably quite a lot.

    I would prefer the minions going straight to the rift, being omniscient as you say. That would allow to have a solid and constant rule. It wouldn't feel cheesy, it would make par times feel more fair and better in a lot of maps. It would also remove unnecessary waitings for minions to reach killboxes on some bigger maps. That combined with a fix for the kamikazes making them finally aim for either the closest barricades or the barricades in the path instead of something in-between like it is now.


    Some people agree with those changes, others don't. But the problem is still there, I bet you can still trick them into the stairs or further on that map, just as you can do super cheesy pathings on many maps. This and the Crogon Keep changes have quite contradictory reactions imho. Most people keeps claiming they want more challenges, more puzzles, yet they complain when a map is changed to allow more variety and create puzzles with more than one single OP solution.
  • TeckTeck Member
    Fwuffy said:
    ShadeDev said:
    Pathing has never been based on line of sight (although it may seem that way).  It has been based on checkpoints that are invisible.  We simply removed one of the checkpoints.
    Well in which case; it would be nice if pathing was/appeared LoS based as that would be logical, regardless of the backend programming magic necessary to accomplish it.
    While this sounds great in theory, how would it play out in practice?  I think we'd be able to predict and react to mobs better but I feel like performance would take a hit.  I'm sadly in the camp where my machine doesn't run the game super great already.  I've actually had several games where my initial load in took so long I lost the game before I got to move because the "infinite" time period at the beginning to place traps before wave 1 actually does cue a timer to start after a couple minutes.  Still, I'd be interested to know if this was or is ever considered by devs.
  • SpamwagonSpamwagon Member, Master Founder, Early Access
    Howsabout we establish rules for the game we are going to play.

    Duh.
  • Spamwagon said:
    Howsabout we establish rules for the game we are going to play.

    Duh.
    Sure suggest what you would want in a perfect system.
  • SpamwagonSpamwagon Member, Master Founder, Early Access
    "Perfect system"?  

    All I am saying is, that Monopoly doesn't have you roll random number of die each round - or pay random amount of rent for a hotel or house.

    Those things are fixed.  They are the rules of the game.   THIS game needs to fix it's rules, and if those established rules need to be changed thereafter, it should be discussed, described, and explained why it is beneficial.

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