Chaos Trials re-spin option

A lot of people seem to have complaints about the difficulty of some of the Chaos Trial modifiers, and while balancing them is in general good, could we bring an option to Chaos Trials like we have with daily quests? Where once a day we can re-spin a modifier perhaps, or definitely try to get a different map but with the same mods?

I feel like that would let people have some feeling of control over the situation, without letting them completely neuter the challenge. And as a solo player, some maps are already brutally difficult for a single person to hold (and with the 1 point rift modifier, you are simply doomed).

Being able to roll for a different map with less spawn points would really go far towards helping make this mode as good as it can be, at least for me. As it is I have over half a dozen keys I just won't play because I simply hate the modifiers (extra barricade cost of any kind) or they are on maps that were awful even without the extra challenge.
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Comments

  • I think that is a good compromise between making them too easy and needing the developers to set a thousand rules on which modifiers can be given with what.

    In fact this could also allow people with higher skill levels to be challenged without making it impossible for others. 
  • You know if you wanted to get real fancy, you could even assign different skull rewards to the different modifiers. Like an easy mod like extra mercenaries is 20 more skulls but a triple barricade cost is 50. That removes the problem where people feel like they are just screwed over by having harder mods but the same rewards. This would introduce a risk / reward system that actually encourages difficult mods, but allows players to still tailor the experience to their own skill level (a bit).
  • YES
    PLEASE
    I CANNOT STAND HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE LOST BY GETTING A orc MAP
    PLEASE AT LEAST LET ME RESPIN THE MAP IM ON, THE ONES I END UP GETTING ARE SO HARD DUE TO THE FACT THEY ARE FOR THE MOST PART MULTI LANE
    PLEASE DEVS
    "Remember! Gnoll dont have a union, when you harm a gnoll, it has no insurance!"
  • sashimiaksashimiak Member, Moderator, Robot Entertainment
    If something like this was to be implemented, would you guys prefer it to be on a fixed timed cycle like robertwsaul suggests, or would you prefer to have "endless" amounts of reroll but pay something for them? (e. g. skulls)
    German Community Manager
  • TimeMasterTimeMaster Member, Early Access
    I might have a different view of the mode but the essence and what makes interesting and unique the mode is it's randomness and Chaos. If I wanted to beat easy levels I would do Survival.

    I understand that some modifiers can be frustrating, but that's the point to some extent in my opinion. I could see the ability to reroll a modifier every some tiers by paying something as long as the new random modifier has the same weight.

    Being able to infinitely reroll or reroll a map would let you make the keys very easy and you would kill diversity by playing the same things over and over.
  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member
    edited August 1
    sashimiak said:
    If something like this was to be implemented, would you guys prefer it to be on a fixed timed cycle like robertwsaul suggests, or would you prefer to have "endless" amounts of reroll but pay something for them? (e. g. skulls)
    I wouldn't be opposed to both TBH.

    I am inclined to agree with TimeMaster that Chaos Trials should be a random chaotic challenge and re-rolling should not be a lighthearted choice.

    I just see this as an option which is better than ignoring the fact certain modifiers, when combined, can make advancement impossible or spending a ton of dev time deciding and programming rules for which modifiers are not allowed to be given together. I'm all for random, chaotic, hard challenges.

    However, I'm not opposed to giving a way out even if that out is at an expense and limited to a small number of re-rolls in a time period particularly since such a feature could allow high skilled players to be rewarded and not barring lower skilled players from participating. What is a challenge to one person is impossible to another and such a feature is a compromise for both while still rewarding the better players more.
  • sashimiak said:
    If something like this was to be implemented, would you guys prefer it to be on a fixed timed cycle like robertwsaul suggests, or would you prefer to have "endless" amounts of reroll but pay something for them? (e. g. skulls)
    I'd prefer timed like the daily quests (and not just because I'm the one who said it :) ). The point of playing the maps is to earn skulls. If I have to spend skulls to be able to win skulls, that's counterproductive, unless the rewards for the mission were guaranteed higher than the skulls spent to re-roll.

    I'm really thinking the daily quest re-roll once per day is the way to go. It still lets you have a little control over what you are doing, but doesn't let you remove the "chaos" of the chaos trials. Plus, as you advance in the trials and more modifiers are added, you automatically have less control over the modifiers as you still only get to re-roll one per day, but there are more of them, keeping that "chaos" fresh (but not as frustrating).
  • sashimiak said:
    If something like this was to be implemented, would you guys prefer it to be on a fixed timed cycle like robertwsaul suggests, or would you prefer to have "endless" amounts of reroll but pay something for them? (e. g. skulls)
    I'd prefer timed like the daily quests (and not just because I'm the one who said it :) ). The point of playing the maps is to earn skulls. If I have to spend skulls to be able to win skulls, that's counterproductive, unless the rewards for the mission were guaranteed higher than the skulls spent to re-roll.

    I'm really thinking the daily quest re-roll once per day is the way to go. It still lets you have a little control over what you are doing, but doesn't let you remove the "chaos" of the chaos trials. Plus, as you advance in the trials and more modifiers are added, you automatically have less control over the modifiers as you still only get to re-roll one per day, but there are more of them, keeping that "chaos" fresh (but not as frustrating).
    I'm all for a reroll feature because, as ambisinisterr said, some mods combos just make the later tiers more frustrating or just downright impossible to complete. Past a point, the game stops being challenging and just becomes painful to play, which is not great IMHO.

    But I'm not too trilled with this kind of "timed" reroll. I think that Chaos Trials and better when you play them in one go; I always find it a bit dull to restart a key later, when you have to get used again to all the modifiers you got the last time you played on this particular key. I really enjoy the gradual difficulty increase that you can feel when you play several key levels in one go and get additional mods and minions scaling every time, and that's not the same when you have to switch keys between levels. I'd much rather have a way to reroll that doesn't make me put a key aside and wait to be able to make it more enjoyable. For exemple, being able to reroll one modifier every X win, or every time you lose a life on the key would be more enjoyable to me.
  • Like my main issue with this is that multi lane chaos trials are like me chugging poison then going for a jog
    Its just a death march
    Im going to screw up at some point, and on the higher tiers, bombers exsist, so goodbye to my kill boxes
    like the only reason I want to be able to re-roll my maps is to hopefully get a more managable one
    "Remember! Gnoll dont have a union, when you harm a gnoll, it has no insurance!"
  • sashimiak said:
    If something like this was to be implemented, would you guys prefer it to be on a fixed timed cycle like robertwsaul suggests, or would you prefer to have "endless" amounts of reroll but pay something for them? (e. g. skulls)
    I'd prefer timed like the daily quests (and not just because I'm the one who said it :) ). The point of playing the maps is to earn skulls. If I have to spend skulls to be able to win skulls, that's counterproductive, unless the rewards for the mission were guaranteed higher than the skulls spent to re-roll.

    I'm really thinking the daily quest re-roll once per day is the way to go. It still lets you have a little control over what you are doing, but doesn't let you remove the "chaos" of the chaos trials. Plus, as you advance in the trials and more modifiers are added, you automatically have less control over the modifiers as you still only get to re-roll one per day, but there are more of them, keeping that "chaos" fresh (but not as frustrating).
    I also think that having a roll once per day is the way to go. As of right now, I feel like it is problematic that there are so many dead keys lying around with people discouraged to try and play them. Since the discouragement is different for everyone, I think that rerolling is a better option than changing the overall difficulty. Some people just hate playing with money discounts, maybe someone can't stand certain enemy types, etc. This would give everyone the option of dodging their most hated modifiers.

    But, I do have to say, that this might make it more repetitive and boring if you could consistently change certain mods, even if it is only once per day (i.e. you never even try to play with barricade discounts and always wait for that mod to go away). There should be some encouragement to play the key with the modifiers which were given to you. I don't think that paying for re-rolls is the way to go, though. Maybe decrease the skull reward for that key a little bit per re-roll? Maybe add a higher chance for other difficult mods? I think that there should be a risk involved in re-rolling, but not before the match started. After all, this is supposed to encourage people to try out those unused, lonely chaos keys who just look for a friendly player to try them out.

    Also, I feel like rerolling maps might make it more repetetive than rerolling mods itself. If you could always dodge all maps you don't like you probably end up playing the easiest maps over and over again.

    Personally, I really like the chaos trial system as it is now, but if I can tell for certain that I won't be able to further advance in a key, I don't feel like wasting my time to try anyways, so something to do with them would be nice. Of course, changing their mods is one way to handle this, as you'll probably atleast think about which keys are doable and which one you want to spend your re-rolls on and you are more likely to give some keys a try. Perhaps it might be interesting to make keys sellable for some skull, maybe even really, really low amounts of gold, scaling with key-tier. This would give them more usage and might make a few more people buy chaos trial keys because they won't end up laying around being useless at some point.
  • RandreRandre Member, Master Founder, Early Access
    Hi All,

    I love the chaos trials and i love the challenge some of the BS combos bring. As such, I don't like the idea of re-spins and would be disappointed if it was implemented. THAT BEING SAID: a compromise I would be ok with would be that you can re spin one modifier at the cost of one life point. This keeps the "deal with the forced change of game play" while also resolving some of the super BS combos. (see x6 cost barricades). The thing that makes Choas Trials great in my mind is that it makes you change up your game play. If you could just freely get rid of something that you don't like then it defeats the point of it all.

    Thanks,
    Stephen
  • TheetisTheetis Member
    I'd give my firstborn child just to be able to reroll No Go-Breaks mod. 
  • SliqSliq Member
    Theetis said:
    I'd give my firstborn child just to be able to reroll No Go-Breaks mod. 
    Agreed...this is a real killer for me, especially when you run solo.  The match is pretty much over if you lag.
    I think a very selective/rare re-spin option, even simply 1 re-spin per key,  would certainly open up keys that have just been stagnating for ages in my stockpile.  
  • AxonyAxony Member
    as stated by ShadeDev on Steam: you are not supposed to finish the keys.

    So the main reason for bad combinations is that you are supposed to loose the key
  • Axony said:
    as stated by ShadeDev on Steam: you are not supposed to finish the keys.

    So the main reason for bad combinations is that you are supposed to loose the key
    Well, sure, that is true and I do thinl that the purpose of chaos trials is not to finish them but rather to have this challenge at each tier. But, it's still a problem that there are so many keys people won't play, because they know they can't win them and there are no uses for these keys. I am still unsure about the re-rolling thing. Being able to turn keys in minor amounts of skulls/gibs/gold would solve pretty much all issues for me.
  • AxonyAxony Member
    if i don't like a key i just start it and loose 3 times.
    I just keep the good and ok ones for daily quests and i still have way to many keys
  • xciencexcience Member, Early Access
    In general I like the way that keys work and I do agree that some make the game exponentially more challenging than others especially for solo play. This is coming from my perspective of soloing most rift lord keys to about t7. 

    Most mods can be overcome by simply altering the way you play. For example if you get the coin train modifier you need a way to slap down cheap traps while you play that way you still retain the money and can sell them and go brakes to replace them with better traps. So in some ways coin drain helps out traps like Spike trap.Mods like Mana drain can be overcome with Mana Wells or items. they force you to play the game differently then you're used to which is a great.

    The expensive traps mod to me is the true key killer. Only people with incredibly diverse rosters of maxed out traps can pull this off sometimes. Even then if the only thing you can put down are celing traps and you don't have the space your doomed.

    I don't personally like the reroll option on it's own. I do like the comments about there being different rewards for different mods. The harder the mod the more skulls. And if you do add a reroll make it cost about half a teirs worth of skulls.....because your effectively forfeiting that level anyways. Make the higher tier give larger rewards so there is greater incentive to move one

    Risk reward baby
  • sashimiaksashimiak Member, Moderator, Robot Entertainment
    Regarding the different rewards for different difficulties of mod, I see a potential issue regarding the "sorting". Some players have shared their feedback (not just in this thread but generally speaking) that for them a no go breaks key is nearly impossible while others enjoy the mod and have no trouble with it. The same goes for e. g. armor mods. People who really enjoy playing (and are very good with) a hero that deals arcane damage won't find a key with say, extra ice armor particularly challenging while that might be a complete disaster for somebody else. So while there are mods I think a big portion of the player base would agree on (expensive barricades being one that comes to mind) I also think there are even more whose perceived difficulty differs greatly among players. It would be a nightmare to sort those mods into difficulty levels that all (or at least most) players can agree on.
    German Community Manager
  • I think there should be (only) mods that does not affect neither "hurt" the core experience of the game (i.e placing traps and shooting orcs in the face). Anything that goes against what I'm supposed to do in this game is a big no-no, to me.
  • xciencexcience Member, Early Access
    even though they are already sorted into difficulty due to some of them being rift lord
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