Chaos Trials re-spin option

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Comments

  • TeckTeck Member
    sashimiak said:
    If something like this was to be implemented, would you guys prefer it to be on a fixed timed cycle like robertwsaul suggests, or would you prefer to have "endless" amounts of reroll but pay something for them? (e. g. skulls)
    I'd definitely lean towards a timer option.  Having a currency reroll would inhibit newer players too much and feel almost free to players who are just farming gibs at this point.
    sashimiak said:
    Regarding the different rewards for different difficulties of mod, I see a potential issue regarding the "sorting". Some players have shared their feedback (not just in this thread but generally speaking) that for them a no go breaks key is nearly impossible while others enjoy the mod and have no trouble with it. The same goes for e. g. armor mods. People who really enjoy playing (and are very good with) a hero that deals arcane damage won't find a key with say, extra ice armor particularly challenging while that might be a complete disaster for somebody else. So while there are mods I think a big portion of the player base would agree on (expensive barricades being one that comes to mind) I also think there are even more whose perceived difficulty differs greatly among players. It would be a nightmare to sort those mods into difficulty levels that all (or at least most) players can agree on.
    I very much think this needs to be a balance focused option for difficulty rather than reward.  As stated, a player who uses significant amounts of lightning damage can ignore fire armor rolls, but at the same time I think part of the intrigue with these keys is how they force you to change up your playstyle to deal with the situation.  I have found on several occasions that I had to change the character I was using between rounds due to a particular roll in order to deal with it appropriately.  I expect that this is intended and shouldn't really be changed.  I do agree that there are combinations of rolls that can be devastating early on and certain rolls that seem too difficult in general as well.  I can only claim to be an average player at best for example and have not pushed a key past level 6 yet even though I have a good array of maxed traps to work with.  I find, for example, that the "triple barricade cost" roll is by far the most devastating roll I can get.  I would feel severely handicapped even if it were only double, so I usually abandon a key very quickly after getting that roll even if its only level 2 or 3.
  • RezsekRezsek Member
    I would prefer the timer option and also the ability to just delete a key.  I don't think it is right if there is a key that you completely hate like No-Go breaks on a big map with some other modifiers like 5 rifts points and lose rift points on death that you can't just delete but have to lose 3 times to just get rid of the key.
  • Teck said:
    sashimiak said:
    If something like this was to be implemented, would you guys prefer it to be on a fixed timed cycle like robertwsaul suggests, or would you prefer to have "endless" amounts of reroll but pay something for them? (e. g. skulls)
    I'd definitely lean towards a timer option.  Having a currency reroll would inhibit newer players too much and feel almost free to players who are just farming gibs at this point.
    sashimiak said:
    Regarding the different rewards for different difficulties of mod, I see a potential issue regarding the "sorting". Some players have shared their feedback (not just in this thread but generally speaking) that for them a no go breaks key is nearly impossible while others enjoy the mod and have no trouble with it. The same goes for e. g. armor mods. People who really enjoy playing (and are very good with) a hero that deals arcane damage won't find a key with say, extra ice armor particularly challenging while that might be a complete disaster for somebody else. So while there are mods I think a big portion of the player base would agree on (expensive barricades being one that comes to mind) I also think there are even more whose perceived difficulty differs greatly among players. It would be a nightmare to sort those mods into difficulty levels that all (or at least most) players can agree on.
    I very much think this needs to be a balance focused option for difficulty rather than reward.  As stated, a player who uses significant amounts of lightning damage can ignore fire armor rolls, but at the same time I think part of the intrigue with these keys is how they force you to change up your playstyle to deal with the situation.  I have found on several occasions that I had to change the character I was using between rounds due to a particular roll in order to deal with it appropriately.  I expect that this is intended and shouldn't really be changed.  I do agree that there are combinations of rolls that can be devastating early on and certain rolls that seem too difficult in general as well.  I can only claim to be an average player at best for example and have not pushed a key past level 6 yet even though I have a good array of maxed traps to work with.  I find, for example, that the "triple barricade cost" roll is by far the most devastating roll I can get.  I would feel severely handicapped even if it were only double, so I usually abandon a key very quickly after getting that roll even if its only level 2 or 3.
    I don't really think that armor mods are a problem. Not that I've always been able to work around them, but mods still should make you go outside of your comfort zone and think outside of the (kill)box you're used to and it is hard to achieve this for everyone without it feeling really unfair to some players. Also, they shouldn't be completely uninteractive, like having all armor or all expensive mods applied at the same time. Stuff like spawn protection for 20 seconds together with rush mode after 40 seconds is debatable on some maps.

    For that reason I think that mods such as coin drain, different kinds of expensive mods (even the barricade one, even though it makes some maps seemingly impossible, but boy, some people really do love spamming barricades up to make minions walk a longer way, so this is atleast one way to make you think out of the box) and fire ogre spam, etc. all have their purpose as long as they only make it more difficult, not impossible. That's why I don't like coin drains % based drain from the get-go where you have (and loose) a big chunk of money. Also I think expensive barricades would be fine if it started at the regular price and would increase for each one you place. This would not prevent you from placing the most crucial barricades while forcing you to cut them out wherever you can.

    I do not really consider myself to be a really good player, but I managed to reach tier 9 on a rift lord chaos key with x3 cost on barricades. My way of working around that was using Maximilian, getting as many subsidized parts as possible, getting the "kidnapped a leprechaun" trait and overachiever to start the game with +3 gold/sec and wait a few minutes. 

    That said, I wouldn't go as far as differenciate mods like "fire armor" from "ice armor", etc. based on how difficult they might be. It seems more appropiate to say, e.g. armor mods generally are less difficult than expensive stuff mods which are not as difficult as no go-breaks. I feel like that way we might be able to get a grasp of what can generally be considered more or less difficult. Of course, any given mod won't have the same difficulty level for different people, but this is always the case. There were lots of war mage maps that have been harder for me than most master maps. I also completed some master maps after I was done with all rift lord maps. But, all of this would only be relevant if we actually decided to increase/decrease the rewards based on the mods. And I am not opposed to that idea.
  • TeckTeck Member
    Teck said:
    sashimiak said:
    If something like this was to be implemented, would you guys prefer it to be on a fixed timed cycle like robertwsaul suggests, or would you prefer to have "endless" amounts of reroll but pay something for them? (e. g. skulls)
    I'd definitely lean towards a timer option.  Having a currency reroll would inhibit newer players too much and feel almost free to players who are just farming gibs at this point.
    sashimiak said:
    Regarding the different rewards for different difficulties of mod, I see a potential issue regarding the "sorting". Some players have shared their feedback (not just in this thread but generally speaking) that for them a no go breaks key is nearly impossible while others enjoy the mod and have no trouble with it. The same goes for e. g. armor mods. People who really enjoy playing (and are very good with) a hero that deals arcane damage won't find a key with say, extra ice armor particularly challenging while that might be a complete disaster for somebody else. So while there are mods I think a big portion of the player base would agree on (expensive barricades being one that comes to mind) I also think there are even more whose perceived difficulty differs greatly among players. It would be a nightmare to sort those mods into difficulty levels that all (or at least most) players can agree on.
    I very much think this needs to be a balance focused option for difficulty rather than reward.  As stated, a player who uses significant amounts of lightning damage can ignore fire armor rolls, but at the same time I think part of the intrigue with these keys is how they force you to change up your playstyle to deal with the situation.  I have found on several occasions that I had to change the character I was using between rounds due to a particular roll in order to deal with it appropriately.  I expect that this is intended and shouldn't really be changed.  I do agree that there are combinations of rolls that can be devastating early on and certain rolls that seem too difficult in general as well.  I can only claim to be an average player at best for example and have not pushed a key past level 6 yet even though I have a good array of maxed traps to work with.  I find, for example, that the "triple barricade cost" roll is by far the most devastating roll I can get.  I would feel severely handicapped even if it were only double, so I usually abandon a key very quickly after getting that roll even if its only level 2 or 3.
    I don't really think that armor mods are a problem. Not that I've always been able to work around them, but mods still should make you go outside of your comfort zone and think outside of the (kill)box you're used to and it is hard to achieve this for everyone without it feeling really unfair to some players. Also, they shouldn't be completely uninteractive, like having all armor or all expensive mods applied at the same time. Stuff like spawn protection for 20 seconds together with rush mode after 40 seconds is debatable on some maps.

    For that reason I think that mods such as coin drain, different kinds of expensive mods (even the barricade one, even though it makes some maps seemingly impossible, but boy, some people really do love spamming barricades up to make minions walk a longer way, so this is atleast one way to make you think out of the box) and fire ogre spam, etc. all have their purpose as long as they only make it more difficult, not impossible. That's why I don't like coin drains % based drain from the get-go where you have (and loose) a big chunk of money. Also I think expensive barricades would be fine if it started at the regular price and would increase for each one you place. This would not prevent you from placing the most crucial barricades while forcing you to cut them out wherever you can.

    I do not really consider myself to be a really good player, but I managed to reach tier 9 on a rift lord chaos key with x3 cost on barricades. My way of working around that was using Maximilian, getting as many subsidized parts as possible, getting the "kidnapped a leprechaun" trait and overachiever to start the game with +3 gold/sec and wait a few minutes. 

    That said, I wouldn't go as far as differenciate mods like "fire armor" from "ice armor", etc. based on how difficult they might be. It seems more appropiate to say, e.g. armor mods generally are less difficult than expensive stuff mods which are not as difficult as no go-breaks. I feel like that way we might be able to get a grasp of what can generally be considered more or less difficult. Of course, any given mod won't have the same difficulty level for different people, but this is always the case. There were lots of war mage maps that have been harder for me than most master maps. I also completed some master maps after I was done with all rift lord maps. But, all of this would only be relevant if we actually decided to increase/decrease the rewards based on the mods. And I am not opposed to that idea.
    I really like your suggestion for a scaling cost upgrade on barricades as an answer.  Like if each barricade increased the cost like maybe 50% more than the previous one.  I think this would limit "barricade spamming" as you call it.  This feature would probably force more efficient use of barricades without making one arbitrarily really expensive that is very needed.  I agree that there are a couple map spots that are crazy difficult without choice barricade positioning.
  • I would like to say, that mods are not main problem of progress in CT. My end at chaos keys are around 10-11 where minions have so much hp and map is short. I dont like idea of daily base reroll, you could store your key for week and totaly reroll it. Also reroling key payed by skulls doenst sounds good, if you would pay more skulls than you can get.

    Personaly I would like to have option to remove modifier every time you lose key life. Because until you lose key life, it mean that this combination of mods are playable. This would give you total of 2 removed mods, but as I say above, bigger issue is dmg and health of minions that you just cant beat on way between gate and port.
  • Honestly I feel if it was on a timer that would make things 10x easier
    but like, my main issue is the maps
    I hate unchained fortress and like, cliffside clash
    WAY too many lanes for one person
    "Remember! Gnoll dont have a union, when you harm a gnoll, it has no insurance!"
  • TeckTeck Member
    Honestly I feel if it was on a timer that would make things 10x easier
    but like, my main issue is the maps
    I hate unchained fortress and like, cliffside clash
    WAY too many lanes for one person
    Aren't both of those maps only 2 doors each?  Is it just that you find these 2 specifically harder than other 2 door maps?  I would think something like Eventide Fortress would be much more annoying.
  • I think its just that order minions are the worst thing in the game
    "Remember! Gnoll dont have a union, when you harm a gnoll, it has no insurance!"
  • I think its just that order minions are the worst thing in the game
    Agree. Their passive ability isn't interesting, it's just infuriating. Anything would be better, even like, a one time health regen when they get low. At least I could feel I was DOING something then. Instead of the current ability, which is just like beating my head against a wall on every single order minion before they die.
  • You know what I feel would make sense?
    If they could take a few hits BEFORE taking damage
    So like after 5 hits, their health goes down like a regular orcs, as they are wearing more armour than orcs are!
    "Remember! Gnoll dont have a union, when you harm a gnoll, it has no insurance!"
  • yobbobearyobbobear Member
    edited August 13
    I usually use fire dot to finish off Soldiers, but modifiers may vary this.

    I don't think I like the idea of removing modifiers when you lose a key life. Chaos Trials is meant to be designed to not be winnable (according to the devs). This is the only end game content we have. 
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