Trip Wire - And what changes I would like to see happen to it.

Trip wire, not everyone uses it, and here are a few reasons why...

One, it takes up trap cap. yes, it takes up trap cap, this is very bad in a multiplayer game! The trap is good for usage but only if you have an open trap slot to place it! If you place it down and then it gets used it's gone, and then one of your team is like "oh look we are not maxed traps! *Places Trap*" And then you are left without Trip wire! You can't use it anymore unless if you sell one of their traps to do it, and sometimes you cannot. because their traps are either unsellable, or they make them unsellable because they just don't know whats going on... 

My suggestion on fixing this is, one, allowing it not to take up trap space! Very much like Maxes Decoys, but also allowing only three Trip wires per wave. So you cannot spam them, but also get used out of them. I say per wave because if you only allow for three trip wires, or heck even ten trip wires per the entire game it just would not be as effective in the long run, such as endless. But three per wave would not be so bad. You could space them out in a kill box. you could space them out across the map and each wave you can go and replace them. 

They don't really stall any minions like Decoys do, so I believe allowing people to be able to use at least three per wave would be useful also very handy considering they disappear so quickly. Also because they would not take up trap cap they could still be useful late game when you already have all the trap space taken up.

What are your thoughts on this? I hope the someone takes a look at this and finds it a respectable request. :) 
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Comments

  • Great ideas. Like the limit idea which means it can be used in different areas.

    Here's another idea make the trip wire be placeable on top of barricades. The way that it is now forces you to place it parallel to your barricades so the first guy triggers the wire and the traps get triggered. But only a small amount of the wave gets triggered. But if it is placed perpendicular more minions get hit by the trigger.
  • Great ideas. Like the limit idea which means it can be used in different areas.

    Here's another idea make the trip wire be placeable on top of barricades. The way that it is now forces you to place it parallel to your barricades so the first guy triggers the wire and the traps get triggered. But only a small amount of the wave gets triggered. But if it is placed perpendicular more minions get hit by the trigger.
    OH yeah, I'd love to able to place the Tripwire on top of or across cades... This would make things a lot more easier when placing them in a small area, don't get me wrong I'm glad they made it 2 tiles wide instead of 3! That was very nice, but sometimes you funnel them into one tile spaces, and the cades make it so you can't place the trip wires effectively. So yes that is a great suggestion!
  • Yes, this trap is totaly useless in matchmake, with people that dont comunicate and take your trap slot once trip wire is used. When you play with friends it is something else. But still, trip wire is not very popular trap. Btw last update was good, 2 space long is better tran 3, now we can actually place it somewhere, it is just weak. I try it once or twice when played with 2 people and we had lot of space in layouts.

    Option to allow players to go over trap limit with trip wires is ok. I dont think that it need spam protection. It is not so strong, it is just one free trap cooldown in area and people sould get out of money soon enought. If spam protection would be needed, I would prefer cooldown than specific limit per wave.

    Personally I would prefer if trip wire would be permanent trap with cooldown like 30-60s or once per wave and renewed similar to power generators. This would also request some max limit per player on it.

  • Personally I would prefer if trip wire would be permanent trap with cooldown like 30-60s
    Personally. I really like this idea too. I think it would be more fun to have it a permanent trap with a cool down like other traps. I mean if the idea of a trip wire resetting itself hurts your sensibilities. Change the name to arcane trip wire, or something. Now its magical. So hopefully the idea of it resetting itself isn't any more unreasonable than there being arcane warriors that are summoned into place.
  • KulinaKulina Member, Moderator, Robot Entertainment
    Hi everybody,

    Thank you all for your great suggestions regarding the trip wire! I can see how a permanent trip wire could appeal to some players. But it could also annoy people who like it as it is. I will share your ideas with the team.

    Don't hesitate to discuss further, I'll keep an eye on this topic ;)

    Cheers!
    French Community Manager
  • Sure discussing further.

    While I do like the idea of it being permanent. If you are worried that this will annoy some people. I do like the idea of them not counting towards your trap cap. I feel like that makes them almost too powerful though. I think everyone would bring them so that once they hit trap cap, you would spam these to get rid of any extra money you have. Which Honestly. I think thats a fantastic thing. Only problem is. It means every single person would have this permanently in their trap loadout, decreasing diversity.
  • Sure discussing further.

    While I do like the idea of it being permanent. If you are worried that this will annoy some people. I do like the idea of them not counting towards your trap cap. I feel like that makes them almost too powerful though. I think everyone would bring them so that once they hit trap cap, you would spam these to get rid of any extra money you have. Which Honestly. I think thats a fantastic thing. Only problem is. It means every single person would have this permanently in their trap loadout, decreasing diversity.
    Thats why they would have to put a limit on them of like three per wave or something like that. so you dont have a bunch of traps and then like fifty tripwires lol....
  • edited September 1
    I highly doubt they will add a per wave mechanic

    Because that isn't simply changing a trap. That is adding a whole new mechanic to the game.

    Also even if you did add such a mechanic, it doesn't change the fact that since the tripwire would ignore trap cap, that it would still be a money sink for after you hit trap cap. Meaning everyone would carry it. Decreasing diversity.

    Which is why I like the idea of it being permanent best. The whole trap would probably need to be reworked if made permanent. Change the cost. Make upgrades effect refire rate.

    (Shrugs). What the dev said about it annoying people who like it. Will always be true. Anytime you change something some people are going to like the change and some people aren't. But I like both these ideas for improving the trap. Just think a permanent trap is more practical.
  • TimeMasterTimeMaster Member, Early Access
    To be fair, unless playing with people that won't listen or trolls, you basically have a coin sink with trip wire, same with boom barrels and they don't really count for trap cap since when used it's recovered. You just need to keep 2-3 trap slots and spam them when minions arrive.
  • edited September 1
    That's a perfectly legitimate argument. Only I have never seen that kind of coordination out of a matchmade game. I play on PS4. But your right, with any pre-made group, you can intentionally leave space to use them as a money sink. I do kind of feel like the game should have a money sink of some sort. Something I was thinking about after making that post a few minutes ago.

    If they want to remove it from adding to trap cap. I think that this would be an acceptable money sink. And perhaps people won't always bring it in their load outs. At the very least you do point out the fact that if they did the same with boom barrels. Then you'd have two options for your money sink. Which does give back a bit of diversity. Wasn't thinking of boom barrels at the time.
  • I vote for permanent version.

    But for the overlimit option. If the limit would be 3 per player. Yes could get potentionaly 9 trap slots in 3player game. I doubt that this would be so big game changer that everbody would pick this to their layouts. And as it was said, you can already spam it now, it just need some coordination. Overlimit would be just troll/tard/azbuka-writers protection.

    Btw did anyone actually test the spam strategy with trip wire? In solo game it must be testable. I am happy that we discuse all option but is this a valid option?
    We are tallking about spam protection overkill "per wave use".  What about it there would be debris like after destroyed barricade? So there would be some delay before you get your trap slot back to use.

    There must be some statistic how often trip wire in current version is used. I didnt saw anyone using it, so I guesing that there is not many of them.

    out of topic
    explosive barels are pathetic, they should be moneysink, but they do no dmg. Hero primar attack do more damage, placing them is just waste of time, when you can actually do some dmg. Barrels should be bigger(to be easily hitter from far), do more dmg and cost more.


  • I still don't think that having trip wire as a Permanent trap will be very good, I mean, What if you want to adjust its placement? You have to wait for a go break and sell it and move it. You could always place another one where you want it really but then you still have to contend with trap cap... So you would still have to sell the original one to deal with it and by the time you do that someone would have filled the place again...


  • TimeMasterTimeMaster Member, Early Access
    Delenter said:
    I still don't think that having trip wire as a Permanent trap will be very good, I mean, What if you want to adjust its placement? You have to wait for a go break and sell it and move it. You could always place another one where you want it really but then you still have to contend with trap cap... So you would still have to sell the original one to deal with it and by the time you do that someone would have filled the place again...


    I'm not sure about liking the permanent thing or not but how is your argument different from what happens with the Power Generator right now? It doesn't reset until next wave, and it works fine.
  • Hmm. yea this is true. I guess having it permanent would be alright. Still think having a little bit of a coin sink would be alright to though. eh either ways fine... 
  • Delenter said:
    Hmm. yea this is true. I guess having it permanent would be alright. Still think having a little bit of a coin sink would be alright to though. eh either ways fine... 
    I understand your money sink concern. In many games I thinking what to do with coins, when your trap limit is full. My favorite strategy contain lot of power generators, so I hit trap limit pretty fast, even with double spring ballistas.  It would be nice to have some option, since limited use traps (boom barrels,trip wire and arcane phazer) cant beat ballistas. I woud rather have 5 balistas than have 5 slots for spaming barrels to sink money. Your auto attack is better than spaming barrels.
    On other hand, if you dont play with generators, you usually dont have this problem.

    It is out of topic but, I would love to have big explosive barrels or ability to upgrade my traps to higher tear in game for coins.
  • Bloodess said:
    Delenter said:
    Hmm. yea this is true. I guess having it permanent would be alright. Still think having a little bit of a coin sink would be alright to though. eh either ways fine... 
    I understand your money sink concern. In many games I thinking what to do with coins, when your trap limit is full. My favorite strategy contain lot of power generators, so I hit trap limit pretty fast, even with double spring ballistas.  It would be nice to have some option, since limited use traps (boom barrels,trip wire and arcane phazer) cant beat ballistas. I woud rather have 5 balistas than have 5 slots for spaming barrels to sink money. Your auto attack is better than spaming barrels.
    On other hand, if you dont play with generators, you usually dont have this problem.

    It is out of topic but, I would love to have big explosive barrels or ability to upgrade my traps to higher tear in game for coins.
    I only have t1 barrels so I cant say how powerful or weak they are honestly. But yeah I would not mind big exploding barrels, it sounds fun.
  • TimeMasterTimeMaster Member, Early Access
    Bloodess said:

     I woud rather have 5 balistas than have 5 slots for spaming barrels to sink money. Your auto attack is better than spaming barrels. 
    On other hand, if you dont play with generators, you usually dont have this problem.

    It is out of topic but, I would love to have big explosive barrels or ability to upgrade my traps to higher tear in game for coins. 
    That's actually not really true. T7 Barrels with resonators deal more damage than most of the heroes primary attack even just hiting 1 minion. When hiting 3+ minions they are stronger than every single primary attack.
  • Delenter said:
    Bloodess said:
    Delenter said:
    Hmm. yea this is true. I guess having it permanent would be alright. Still think having a little bit of a coin sink would be alright to though. eh either ways fine... 
    I understand your money sink concern. In many games I thinking what to do with coins, when your trap limit is full. My favorite strategy contain lot of power generators, so I hit trap limit pretty fast, even with double spring ballistas.  It would be nice to have some option, since limited use traps (boom barrels,trip wire and arcane phazer) cant beat ballistas. I woud rather have 5 balistas than have 5 slots for spaming barrels to sink money. Your auto attack is better than spaming barrels.
    On other hand, if you dont play with generators, you usually dont have this problem.

    It is out of topic but, I would love to have big explosive barrels or ability to upgrade my traps to higher tear in game for coins.
    I only have t1 barrels so I cant say how powerful or weak they are honestly. But yeah I would not mind big exploding barrels, it sounds fun.
    Upgraded boombarel do 610dmg, upgraded boombarel rolel with no part do 354 dmg every 8s (5s with parts). And those barrels are free after build. I dont think any one would build boombarrel for 610dmg one time use.

  • Boom Barrel can be use anywhere, BBR need a wall slot prefrably a high one, or else you're skipping on a better wall trap  ;).

    and with Boom Barrel you can decide wich target it's goiing to hit, it's still a pretty good deal
  • Bloodess said:

     I woud rather have 5 balistas than have 5 slots for spaming barrels to sink money. Your auto attack is better than spaming barrels. 
    On other hand, if you dont play with generators, you usually dont have this problem.

    It is out of topic but, I would love to have big explosive barrels or ability to upgrade my traps to higher tear in game for coins. 
    That's actually not really true. T7 Barrels with resonators deal more damage than most of the heroes primary attack even just hiting 1 minion. When hiting 3+ minions they are stronger than every single primary attack.
    Yes, you are right, most heroes single attack is lower than single boombarrel explosion, but considering time that you have to spend placing boombarel and mutiple attacks boombarels will not be so great. Anyway, it would be not very confortable game trying to do decent dmg with barrels. Also if we are thinking about moneysing, it is quite late game and your hero have some lvl and do quite a lot of dmg with primary attack.
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