If you want to be high rank in sabotage and get there fast, you may feel the need to play dirty

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Comments

  • Good ideas @Lightsteal, I think nr.4 is quite nice. Make minions just go to the rift asap. Perhaps for that to be fair a 10sec delay would be in order to warn the other team. They could have the last minion just a few feet from the rift as the other team finishes.
  • SorohendiSorohendi Member
    edited November 22
    I would also like to see it possible to q up for a 1pl or 2pl games. And not be forced to play with randoms. I've often played in a 2pl party and we have discussed how the 3rd player can often be a burden.

    As for the ranking system. Fifa has a pretty straight forward ranking system. 10 divisions and you need to win a certain amount of games to stay in your div and a certain amount to go up a division. Maybe something similar might be done in omd!u. I have read a lot of complains about the ranking system. They also have unranked games and cup games with a knockout phase. So 16 teams can register for a cup entry, winner stays and the loser can register for the next cup.

    Rank could change to nr. of cups won and nr. of 1st, 2nd etc. divisions won.

    Once a week the players with the most cups or division wins could get invites to some community cup. Where the cream of the crop could be invited to duke it out and maybe win a title or special badge.
  • @Lightsteal My concern with these options is many of them will for the most part target new players who struggle to clear their map efficiently. While this thread makes it seem like coin farming is a common thing, I have never run into it to the extent @Sorohendi's original post indicates, nor have I run into people who intentionally troll (though I realize there are people who do my point is it isn't common). Possibly more importantly is that none of the currently active high rank people I have played with or against seem to be cheating in any of the ways described. Again. Sometimes it probably happens, but I'd be happier if we could focus on threads teaching new players great strategies instead of trying to nerf the game/ complain about the few people who do cheat (send a ticket).
  • sashimiaksashimiak Member, Moderator, Robot Entertainment
    First of all, thank you all for keeping this mostly civil. I appreciate that it's a heated topic and that things can get frustrating.

    In regards to cheaters, I can assure you that each and every ticket is investigated thoroughly by our support. As such, all I can really say about this is to please keep sending in tickets if you think some specific player is cheating and we will look at it. I have also passed the feedback regarding power generators on to the team. 
    German Community Manager
  • SorohendiSorohendi Member
    edited November 22
    @ElaMonster. Perhaps not enough people are reading my start post on this thread. But I never mentioned one word about coin farming there. I did however mention it in another post that waiting for a minute or more after the other side finishing their coinfarming can be terribly annoying to the other side. And on a side note; it is simply a gamebreaker for low lvl players to compete against high tier power generators. The lower lvl players who some don't even have power gens, don't stand a chance in competing against higher lvl players with good power gens. Especially not in the later stages of games.

    That's why I seriously propose that bronze rank players play against other bronze players and etc. just for fairness sake. Putting ofc. platin and diamond into gold rank option or those players would never find games.

    I for one have no enjoyment in winning players that are only equipped with red traps. It's like playing football against a 10 year old. There simply is no competition in it and not very sportman like. And when I go into a random matchup and get those low lvl players on my side it is simpler just to quit playing and play some other game in stead where I face a leveled playing field. That's why I'd like the option to go into 1vs1 in sabotage as a search option when I go into games alone. Otherwise I'll be disconnecting from the game and making match-making more time consuming for others searching for games. I used to, but when I did, I most usually lost because of that. And I am by no means the only player out there that does that. I could go into naming several platin and diamond ranking players from several guilds that do that. But I will not for fairness sake.

    Perhaps @ElaMonster, you don't notice this a lot because you usually go into matchmaking in a set 3pl party? I'm not saying that's wrong of you, but that might explain your live and let live point of view on matchmaking?

    That being said, I stand firm on my opinion that playing with a low lvl player is, in most cases, just an invite to a frustrating, babysitting teamplay. Not to mention the trolls out there who rarely have the patience to lvl up their account. This is the reason why in professional sports,  younglings play vs younglings, amateurs play vs amateurs, and professionals vs professionals and where physical strength is a factor women vs women and men vs men. If this was all mixed into one pot I doubt anyone would be watching professional sports. Let alone would there be anyone other then professionals playing sports.
  • Sorohendi said:


    Perhaps @ElaMonster, you don't notice this a lot because you usually go into matchmaking in a set 3pl party? I'm not saying that's wrong of you, but that might explain your live and let live point of view on matchmaking?

    I actually que solo quite often and I never leave the game lobby even if I am matched with low lvl players. In my opinion it is bad form to do so, and it is a game, so while rank is sorta nice (I am hovering between platinum IV and III) I'd rather have a fun with a person who is new to the game than quit a game lobby and make everyone wait longer when there is already a long enough que.

    I play to have a good time with people, not to get some number on a leader-board that in the end is just a compilation of what a poorly programmed computer code assigns to people.
  • i agree,so let's 1v1.
  • @75312848 agree with who? :0
  • In fact, because of my bad English, I can only know roughly what you are talking about. But the same thing happens to my server, where diamond players take one or two bronze players, keeping a quick match and a weak opponent, improving their score. In order to ensure that bronze players ensure bronze position, they will alone match passers-by, deliberately trouble so as to quickly lose the game. This bad behavior has led many players to lose their game experience, so nowadays my server has almost no one to play sabotage.
    So I came to the American server, is to play 1v1.Do not need to consider good teammates or bad teammates, usually bad.
  • Jackbenz1990Jackbenz1990 Member
    edited December 3
    75312848 said:
    In fact, because of my bad English, I can only know roughly what you are talking about. But the same thing happens to my server, where diamond players take one or two bronze players, keeping a quick match and a weak opponent, improving their score. In order to ensure that bronze players ensure bronze position, they will alone match passers-by, deliberately trouble so as to quickly lose the game. This bad behavior has led many players to lose their game experience, so nowadays my server has almost no one to play sabotage.
    So I came to the American server, is to play 1v1.Do not need to consider good teammates or bad teammates, usually bad.
    Are there different servers on Orcs?

    Not really interested in getting involved in the conversation but i strongly disagree with @ElaMonster.

    Sabotage is a competitive mode where ALL matches are ranked. Which means it is by design that every match is important and push player to compete and climb the leaderboard. Whether you like it or not some players are entitled to play with the main ,or maybe only, goal to get a better tier and climb spots.
    The lacking of 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 selection is, by any mean, a MISTAKE for all the reasons you guys already pointed out, like unbalanced matchmaking that may lead to unbalanced fights in-game. 
    So this kind of process, even if i appreciate the kindness and whiteness for you to play with low lvl players, simply penalize all the players who wants to approach this mode in a more hardcore way and leaving before the game begins is the ONLY way to balance things back.

    I understand that having different mode setting: 1v1,2v2, 3v3 might lead to different leaderboards but i also believe that the game as it is now has a very foggy way of scaling and rewarding and the leaderboard is not reflective of anybody's skills, so i welcome fondly the new reset on the next update and would like for the devs to present some different way to calculate everyone's positions.

    Hope i won't cause any rage XD. Have fun everyone!

    Post edited by Jackbenz1990 on
  • I think the new custom games will make 1v1 available.

    It did work like that before siege was removed. So finally you can challenge your worst enemy. I'm planning on vs worms we haven't had a showdown in a while.
  • The only problem I have with power gen is how powerful (lel) it is, especially in 1v1s.  I don't think I've ever lost a game against someone who didn't bring power generators while I did, and I don't think I've ever won a game where the opponent brought power gens and I didn't. Being able to reach trap cap (not to mention the exp power gens give) is too much of an advantage over another player who will only have ~40 traps down by the time sudden death shows up.  It also leads to even easier wins when guilds (who have pre-determined areas where they set up power gens) are against random players who either don't know that they have to bring power generators, or are competing for power generator spots (or can't put them down because that one guy filled the map with arrow walls already).

    When you play the game of sabo, you either powergen or lose.
  • When you play the game of sabo, you either powergen or lose.

    While powegens in their current state are wonderful (being nerfed to death tomorrow in the patch), they are not a guarantee win/loss if you do or don't bring them. In 1v1 I rarely spend the trap slot on a power gen and while I don't enjoy 1v1 I dont win more if I bring them. Actually, thinking about it, I might lose more the times I bring them. I just don't then have the slots for all the other traps I need for a particular map.


    Jackbenz1990 said:
    Are there different servers on Orcs?
    Currently yes. There is a Europe base server and a North American based server. Not sure who falls into what group, but it makes for much higher que times and means that games are more often going to be unbalanced because good players from different areas cant play against each other. Both servers are about as active, but it is a time of day thing.

    So this kind of process, even if i appreciate the kindness and whiteness for you to play with low lvl players, simply penalize all the players who wants to approach this mode in a more hardcore way and leaving before the game begins is the ONLY way to balance things back.

    I am confused by your point about approaching this game in a hardcore way. It seems to imply I do not, which is fundamentally untrue. If you look at the top players, I am methodically climbing towards the top (almost platinum 1 now, when last time I posted I was hovering between platinum 3 and 4). I have achieved this and never abandoned the game because a random had low level traps. Heck I accidentally qued against my guildmates and managed to beat them with 2 randoms while my guildmates were a premade on voice chat just yesterday :D. Proud moments :P.

    I think being able to work with randoms and coordinate them is super hard core. Teach low level players you come across and your win will afford you a huge reward.
  • AxonyAxony Member
    low level player are an advaantage for you not a handicap.
    The map scales with the level of all members of the team.
    If you now play 3x lvl100 vs 1x lvl100 + 2x lvl20 then your map won't be lvl100, more like 50-60.

    You can easily hold sudden death longer on a lvl60 map vs a lvl100 map.
  • No low level player are not an advantage 
    They are always people who don't communicate, don't have any strat, not have any usefull trap, don't want to teamplay, etc...

    I hate being in queue for hours and finally getting a 2v2 or a 3v3 with me someone i don't want to play with like that because I already know that I will lost because if him.
  • falco708 said:
    No low level player are not an advantage 
    They are always people who don't communicate, don't have any strat, not have any usefull trap, don't want to teamplay, etc...

    I hate being in queue for hours and finally getting a 2v2 or a 3v3 with me someone i don't want to play with like that because I already know that I will lost because if him.
    It is a matter of each persons experience but saying they always don't communicate or contribute is inaccurate. I have run into many new players who are eager to be helpful and communicate well.
  • I met more than 10 players like that and no one helped me in any way it was possible
    also playing solo reduce a lot the health of the enemy so it's a lot more easy than with a random guy who don't know how to play

  • So this kind of process, even if i appreciate the kindness and whiteness for you to play with low lvl players, simply penalize all the players who wants to approach this mode in a more hardcore way and leaving before the game begins is the ONLY way to balance things back.

    I am confused by your point about approaching this game in a hardcore way. It seems to imply I do not, which is fundamentally untrue. If you look at the top players, I am methodically climbing towards the top (almost platinum 1 now, when last time I posted I was hovering between platinum 3 and 4). 
    I wasn't talking about your way, i was talking about the lacking of a choice method and the possibility to quit before hand, pairing up with noobs DOESN'T help anybody unless you can talk to them. I mean talking for REAL.

    Even if you won a few matches with low level players, i believe everyone has at least a few times, doesn't make it more hardcore, as i stated previously the fact that ALL the matches are ranked tend to discourage playing with low level players by design, it's a matchmaking problem not a will to play with others, there should be a fun mode and a rank mode to completely solve this.

  • damfinodamfino Member
    edited December 5
    Playing against low levels feels bad. A lot of times I don't even bother sending minions or spells. Or even pick powerful spells only so they can maybe clone it from me and get a little help. Then there's the flipside, playing with low levels against organized or high rank teams. Most you can do is carry them into sudden death where they get obliterated.

    The ranking is what bothers me the most since it is realistically the only "reward" sabotage offers. I don't see why I can win 1v1 battle against a diamond 3 and move up only four spots between platinum 1, but later the same day lose against another diamond 3 on a 1v1 and drop 8 spots, back to plat II, instead.

    But if you're with low rank teammates the punishment for losing is far harsher. I've dropped up to 38 spots after a single game, either because my teammate was new to the map or just not skilled enough to defend correctly. Yet I read here on this thread that playing with low levels is "low risk". Right. It is fun, and I'll do it, but come on. Fix the rank system, allow to play games with no effect on rank, or at least explain to me exactly what it takes into consideration.
  • damfinodamfino Member
    edited December 5
    Better yet, get rid of ranks entirely. Make it so everyone goes back to simply playing for fun and not having to cheat or suffer for what's in the end just a badge made of pixels. How many players reach diamond, then stop playing?
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