Brass Feedback

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  • So my 2 cents on Brass currently,

    Turret is bad, the initial summoning is bad, but the rate at which you upgrade and heal it is bad, let alone it is defenseless against archers. the damage it produces is also dwarfed by every other ability and resource Brass has at her disposal. In its current form you need to be able to near instantly or instantly upgrade the turret per tier and heal much larger chunks of health (33-50% per hit at a commensurate scrap cost).

    I've seen the cannonball rediculousness and know that's getting nerfed in some way because it is OP so that's fine. the primary attack and it's weird queuing makes everything feel weird playing her and I hope that's an easy fix but if not I can wait on it as it feels somewhat like a feature of how powerful the primary attack is currently.

    The scrap weavers may need buffs. Junk Yard is essentially a t4 weaver that is equivalent to giving the character 2.5 Mana regen per second, based on mana to scrap conversion a Brass Bomb costs 50 mana by default (20 scrap). This is essentially giving her what everyone else already has. This doesn't make it attractive other than the fact that she's a glass cannon and nothing in her entire weaver set will compete with the cannonball cooldown weaver currently.

    I love the ideas for the character i think they just need to be adjusted a bit to be in line with other characters. The turret currently has issues surviving rift lord, making it pointless for chaos trials unless you leave it T1 which nullifies most of its weaver choices as well. The core of the character has a lot of ideas, a little tuning and she'll be the best addition to the game yet.
    Archivist of the Order, feel free to ask me any questions you have!
  • mdragoon said:
    So my 2 cents on Brass currently,

    Turret is bad, the initial summoning is bad, but the rate at which you upgrade and heal it is bad, let alone it is defenseless against archers. the damage it produces is also dwarfed by every other ability and resource Brass has at her disposal. In its current form you need to be able to near instantly or instantly upgrade the turret per tier and heal much larger chunks of health (33-50% per hit at a commensurate scrap cost).

    I've seen the cannonball rediculousness and know that's getting nerfed in some way because it is OP so that's fine. the primary attack and it's weird queuing makes everything feel weird playing her and I hope that's an easy fix but if not I can wait on it as it feels somewhat like a feature of how powerful the primary attack is currently.

    The scrap weavers may need buffs. Junk Yard is essentially a t4 weaver that is equivalent to giving the character 2.5 Mana regen per second, based on mana to scrap conversion a Brass Bomb costs 50 mana by default (20 scrap). This is essentially giving her what everyone else already has. This doesn't make it attractive other than the fact that she's a glass cannon and nothing in her entire weaver set will compete with the cannonball cooldown weaver currently.

    I love the ideas for the character i think they just need to be adjusted a bit to be in line with other characters. The turret currently has issues surviving rift lord, making it pointless for chaos trials unless you leave it T1 which nullifies most of its weaver choices as well. The core of the character has a lot of ideas, a little tuning and she'll be the best addition to the game yet.
    How is cannonball rediculous and OP? 
  • I think that the current gripes about the turret could be fixed with buffs to the turret weaver upgrades, rather than the base ability itself. This would help keep Brass balanced. 
  • xpendersx said:
    mdragoon said:
    So my 2 cents on Brass currently,

    Turret is bad, the initial summoning is bad, but the rate at which you upgrade and heal it is bad, let alone it is defenseless against archers. the damage it produces is also dwarfed by every other ability and resource Brass has at her disposal. In its current form you need to be able to near instantly or instantly upgrade the turret per tier and heal much larger chunks of health (33-50% per hit at a commensurate scrap cost).

    I've seen the cannonball rediculousness and know that's getting nerfed in some way because it is OP so that's fine. the primary attack and it's weird queuing makes everything feel weird playing her and I hope that's an easy fix but if not I can wait on it as it feels somewhat like a feature of how powerful the primary attack is currently.

    The scrap weavers may need buffs. Junk Yard is essentially a t4 weaver that is equivalent to giving the character 2.5 Mana regen per second, based on mana to scrap conversion a Brass Bomb costs 50 mana by default (20 scrap). This is essentially giving her what everyone else already has. This doesn't make it attractive other than the fact that she's a glass cannon and nothing in her entire weaver set will compete with the cannonball cooldown weaver currently.

    I love the ideas for the character i think they just need to be adjusted a bit to be in line with other characters. The turret currently has issues surviving rift lord, making it pointless for chaos trials unless you leave it T1 which nullifies most of its weaver choices as well. The core of the character has a lot of ideas, a little tuning and she'll be the best addition to the game yet.
    How is cannonball rediculous and OP? 
    Get 50% cd weaver, go unchained, hold down secondary attack. You now have a full auto, cannonball spraying, super weapon. Enjoy!
  • I have a few (alot of) suggestions on how to improve/fix Brass.

    The first turret weaver should increase HP and attack speed by 30%, because there's no incentive right now to pick anything other then the cost reduction for the land mines. 

    The second turret weaver in addition to what it already does, it should also give the turret a 50% damage resistance against melee attackers. This would dramatically improve durability.

    The third turret weaver seems fine, no changes needed.

    The fourth turret upgrade should give a 50% damage resistance against ranged attackers to the turret in addition to the mana/Health regen. 

    Lastly the base turrets range and lock-on speed should be increased by 100%, additionally the turret should focus archers over all other enemies.

    All the scrap weavers except the +50 scrap capacity should just be replaced with other upgrades.

    I have thought up replacements for the scrap weavers (except the tier 2, because that's useful).

    Tier 1: Bombardier: Increases Cannonball blast radius by 25%

    Tier 3: Improved gun powder: increases Blunderbuss and Cannonball damage by 20%

    Tier 4: Armor Piercing Rounds: The blunderbuss can now penetrate through targets and hit up to 3 enemies behind them for half the normal damage. Additionally APR completely ignores physical armor, dealing full damage.

    Lastly brass bombs should have a 1s detonation delay when tripped by enemies. This is to maximize damage potential against hordes of enemies.


    Anyway this is how i'd rework/improve Brass. Thoughts?
  • xpendersxxpendersx Member
    edited December 2017
    xpendersx said:
    mdragoon said:
    So my 2 cents on Brass currently,

    Turret is bad, the initial summoning is bad, but the rate at which you upgrade and heal it is bad, let alone it is defenseless against archers. the damage it produces is also dwarfed by every other ability and resource Brass has at her disposal. In its current form you need to be able to near instantly or instantly upgrade the turret per tier and heal much larger chunks of health (33-50% per hit at a commensurate scrap cost).

    I've seen the cannonball rediculousness and know that's getting nerfed in some way because it is OP so that's fine. the primary attack and it's weird queuing makes everything feel weird playing her and I hope that's an easy fix but if not I can wait on it as it feels somewhat like a feature of how powerful the primary attack is currently.

    The scrap weavers may need buffs. Junk Yard is essentially a t4 weaver that is equivalent to giving the character 2.5 Mana regen per second, based on mana to scrap conversion a Brass Bomb costs 50 mana by default (20 scrap). This is essentially giving her what everyone else already has. This doesn't make it attractive other than the fact that she's a glass cannon and nothing in her entire weaver set will compete with the cannonball cooldown weaver currently.

    I love the ideas for the character i think they just need to be adjusted a bit to be in line with other characters. The turret currently has issues surviving rift lord, making it pointless for chaos trials unless you leave it T1 which nullifies most of its weaver choices as well. The core of the character has a lot of ideas, a little tuning and she'll be the best addition to the game yet.
    How is cannonball rediculous and OP? 
    Get 50% cd weaver, go unchained, hold down secondary attack. You now have a full auto, cannonball spraying, super weapon. Enjoy!
    So i ask again how is this OP?, u first need to be level 10 to be able to spam it, it is only for like what 15 seconds? and u go unchained what 4/5x max in a game. Brass isn't even the only hero who can do that.

    take cygnus he loses his right click cooldown when going unchained at level 2.
    blackpaw loses his cooldown on his E at level 4.
    those 2 heroes spam there skills and mess up waves like they are nothing and brass's cannonball is OP? (for doing the same as other heroes) 

    Nah the cannonball isn't the problem, if people really think it is so OP then nerf the unchained buff making it so that u can't get 0 seconds cooldown on any hero! dont nerf 1 ability when others can do the same..

    Sure brass can also stun lock but so can cygnus with his level 10 weaver. the damage of cannonball is not even that impresive compared to other abilities. (and yeah i agree stun locking is on the OP side)

    sorry for my english.
  • Cygnus' lightning had cooldown increase to prevent rapid firing, blackpaw has a mana cost and a relatively low mana pool, Brass has 0 cost and a near infinite stream of damage and stun with those weavers selected

    Unchained can't afford to be nerfed as a mechanic (again) so the skill itself will likely be nerfed, but only in so far as it doesn't become an instant win. The cannonball is the most impressive ability she has hands down because it's free, does aoe damage, and can be used just as often as her primary attack at battle level 10 when her other tools require weavers to keep up and are still a bit lacking currently
    Archivist of the Order, feel free to ask me any questions you have!
  • yobbobear said:
    I think that the current gripes about the turret could be fixed with buffs to the turret weaver upgrades, rather than the base ability itself. This would help keep Brass balanced. 
    base turret ability needs to be buffed, weavers are reliant on the core stats, turret upgrade/healing time is bad in my opinion, and buffing the base stats makes all of those weavers significantly more inviting. 
    Archivist of the Order, feel free to ask me any questions you have!
  • xpendersxxpendersx Member
    edited December 2017
    mdragoon said:
    Cygnus' lightning had cooldown increase to prevent rapid firing, blackpaw has a mana cost and a relatively low mana pool, Brass has 0 cost and a near infinite stream of damage and stun with those weavers selected

    Unchained can't afford to be nerfed as a mechanic (again) so the skill itself will likely be nerfed, but only in so far as it doesn't become an instant win. The cannonball is the most impressive ability she has hands down because it's free, does aoe damage, and can be used just as often as her primary attack at battle level 10 when her other tools require weavers to keep up and are still a bit lacking currently
    Cygnus can still spam and stunlock it he just has a tiny animation. tested it today, blackpaw has a tiny mana pool but the cost of his E is so small u can still chew out an entire wave! all they need to do is make it so the animation of brass can't be canceled not nerf the ability for something that can only happen a few time's a game that doesn't make sense. and nerfing unchained so u can't get skills at 0 cooldown what is wrong with that?? 
    Post edited by xpendersx on
  • I have to agree with most of the feedback here.

    She does seem to have a low HP count. A bit of a buff would be nice.

    The turret does seem to be quite underwhelming especially with its really short range and how easy it is for archers to just snipe it to death even with weaver buffs selected.

    Also, would it possible to change how the turret's summoned or placed? Let's just place the turret like how we place traps or like how OW's Torbjorn and TF2's Engineer place their turrets where we get a preview of where we are going to place it instead of an immediate placement the moment we press L-shift.

    Summoning a turret on another location which automatically deletes the previous one would also be preferred instead of physically going to its initial placement just to sell it.

    Regarding her wrench (Q), can we get a sound confirmation when we successfully hit a minion? A bigger model or visual representation would be nice as well. Just some QoL improvements.

    Her primary attack also feels like there is too much delay after firing it especially when using gears.

    As for her secondary, it only feels like it's overpowered when Brass is unchained just like Cygnus or Blackpaw. But isn't what going unchained is supposed to be like? Make your hero feel op?

    I like how Brass brings a new flavor to the current roster of heroes we have in OMDU and she's really fun to use although she definitely needs to be balanced (buffed) more.



  • HieroGlyphHieroGlyph Member
    edited December 2017
    So I've spent significantly more time playing Brass and everything involving scrap feels off.

    Brass Bombs are the best of the bunch and they desperately need a slight detonation delay (1-2s). Right now they hit the lead guy and maybe a few followers and miss the pack. You can try to set the Bomb slightly out of the lane so only larger packs trip it but that is unreliable at best. The only real solution is to place them directly into large groups and Brass doesn't have the health/defense to make this work easily. It can be done but it is limited at best, and going unchained is always better with Cannonball spam.

    The Wrench attack is 99% pointless. Again, Brass' lack of health/defense makes using a melee attack challenging. About the only time you can use it us against only large enemies since they ignore you. And for what? A few scrap drops that you probably can't pick up anyway. At higher difficulties I never risk even attempting to use this skill, it's just not worth it. It is useful to upgrade the turret, but that has its own problems.

    Which brings us to the highlight (lowlight?) of the kit: the turret. It draws aggro like a Guardian but dies very quickly. It's short so you can't protect it with Barricades easily. It's range is short, so you need to place it very close to the lanes and archers just outrange it. I understand it's just one part of her kit but it feels awkward. Personally, I'd give it a cooldown if destroyed but none if dispelled and make it slightly stronger defensively, either by upgrading weavers or buffing it slightly. In this manner it would reward smart placement and upgrades, but still allow players to use it as a basic skill with limited effectiveness.

    In short, she needs lots of minor tweaking and her weavers are pretty bad since they don't do much to offset her problems.
  • I agree with penders, there is not a big difference between Brass and other heroes when going unchained. Going unchained is supposed to be a gamebreaker to help out a suffering game or speed up a good game. Midnight can basically two-shot most bosses while going unchained and that doesn't seem to bother anyone.

    As far as the brass bombs are concerned I enjoy the no delay because you can run into a pack of enemies and obliterate them. If anything they do too much damage and are more of a balance issue than the unchained cannonball. You can achieve this power right at the beginning of a match as well.

    The biggest problem is obviously the turret. I drop one at the first lane and only upgrade it when things are going well. Otherwise scrap is much better off used on brass bombs. If the turret dies then it's really a non-issue, it doesn't really change the game having it there or not.

    But, a lot of heroes have under powered weavers and abilities. Blackpaws gnoll spirits are a mana heavy low-dps ability that at best will get in the way of other ranged heroes. Cygnus' trap buff is very situational and I totally forget he even has it most of the time because he has much stronger abilities that weaver upgrades enhance. These are just some examples of heroes with the same flaws as Brass.

    In short, nerf brass bombs damage, increase turret viability through health or better damage scaling and leave the cannonball alone as it is very fitting with other heroes ridiculous unchained potential.
  • cyberfailzorcyberfailzor Member
    edited December 2017
    I honestly can't understand why the wrench bash was made to hit a single target, also, wouldn't it feel much better to have that as the secondary skill? These are quality-of-life issues that have to be addressed ASAP, other than that Brass is definitely useful, although some of her weavers (damage ones) are definitely more appealing than others, on a note, the health is abysmal, Midnight can go invisible and she has even more hps (AND weavers that support her fighting up close, regen, armor, CC resistance, you name it), using the wrench on Brass is asking to get killed, to be honest I'm wondering if there was an issue with her health scaling at this point.

    I'd say most of the Scrap related weavers fall short because the scrap mechanic wasn't implemented on all of her kit, but then again, is that really a bad thing? I wouldn't want to force anything on players.
    Post edited by cyberfailzor on
  • KjubyKjuby Member
    edited December 2017
    Played few games with Brass. Most annoying feature for me is that i have to dispel turret before summon new one. And the turret... can you make it more "brutal". Cuz it is so small and it doesn't look like "killer machine" even if it is fully upgraded.
  • LemartesLemartes Member, Early Access, Apprentice Founder
    To those complaining about Brass/Unchained - is this your first time playing the game ?

    Try Blackpaw - you get non stop go for the throat (Which heals you)

    or Smoulder - non stop incinerate - you dont even have to aim.

    or Dobbin - non stop dynamite - which gets you a ton of money.

    All heroes are very strong when unchained and will defeat a wave easily.
  • Lemartes said:
    To those complaining about Brass/Unchained - is this your first time playing the game ?

    Try Blackpaw - you get non stop go for the throat (Which heals you)

    or Smoulder - non stop incinerate - you dont even have to aim.

    or Dobbin - non stop dynamite - which gets you a ton of money.

    All heroes are very strong when unchained and will defeat a wave easily.
    All require mana which does get restored when you go unchained but can't be used all the time. But with Brass it requires nothing.

    My suggestion would be half her time unchained. So the feeling behind killing everything is still there but she is not that op.
  • xpendersxxpendersx Member
    edited December 2017
    Lemartes said:
    To those complaining about Brass/Unchained - is this your first time playing the game ?

    Try Blackpaw - you get non stop go for the throat (Which heals you)

    or Smoulder - non stop incinerate - you dont even have to aim.

    or Dobbin - non stop dynamite - which gets you a ton of money.

    All heroes are very strong when unchained and will defeat a wave easily.
    All require mana which does get restored when you go unchained but can't be used all the time. But with Brass it requires nothing.

    My suggestion would be half her time unchained. So the feeling behind killing everything is still there but she is not that op.
    Sure they use mana but with mana healing guardian, 2 mana trinkets, mana siphons and the increase in max mana when going unchained u might as well call it infinite.

    halving her unchained is not the solution why? because she only does this "Op" thing when level 10 and only if she picked the cdr reduction weaver for cannonball.
    my suggestion would be to lower the amount of unchained time when picking the cdr weaver. i dont think it should be 50% it is quite high. but this way if people dont pick the cdr weaver they dont get punished for something they can't even use. 

    I do think that lowering the Unchained time when picking the cooldown weaver could work, because she does not get nerfed when not unchained, and she doesn't lose the ability to spam cannonballs and still feel really really strong she just does it less long wich lowers the total damage output and impact on the wave. 
  • xpendersx said:
    Sure they use mana but with mana healing guardian, 2 mana trinkets, mana siphons and the increase in max mana when going unchained u might as well call it infinite.
    The only problem is all the mana regen stops during combat as the minions will hit you with arrows or a hunter behind you. So you still have to make sure that you have enough to keep in the battle.

    On the other hand brass can fire for a long time and doesn't have to get mana afterwards.
  • xpendersx said:
    Sure they use mana but with mana healing guardian, 2 mana trinkets, mana siphons and the increase in max mana when going unchained u might as well call it infinite.
    The only problem is all the mana regen stops during combat as the minions will hit you with arrows or a hunter behind you. So you still have to make sure that you have enough to keep in the battle.

    On the other hand brass can fire for a long time and doesn't have to get mana afterwards.
    Mage's picnic, mana guardian, mana/guardian potion an mana siphon keep the mana regen going during combat
  • xpendersx said:
    xpendersx said:
    Sure they use mana but with mana healing guardian, 2 mana trinkets, mana siphons and the increase in max mana when going unchained u might as well call it infinite.
    The only problem is all the mana regen stops during combat as the minions will hit you with arrows or a hunter behind you. So you still have to make sure that you have enough to keep in the battle.

    On the other hand brass can fire for a long time and doesn't have to get mana afterwards.
    Mage's picnic, mana guardian, mana/guardian potion an mana siphon keep the mana regen going during combat
    All of those are situational and you have to take them in the match while brass can just pop her unchained whenever she feels like it
    Also :
    • Cygnius' unchained lightning spam has nowhere near as much stopping power as brasses spam
    • Blackpaw can still get bursted down while unchained in extreme cases (it's extremely rare but can happen) and has no cc
    • Someone still has to pick up dobbin's money bags which can be a risk by itself and late game money isn't that important
    • Smolder has the same problem as blackpaw (can be bursted down even easier since she cant self sustain)
    I'm not saying they dont have op unchained abilities, I'm saying that no unchained can even be compared to brasses RMB
    1. It deals A TON of AoE damage (about the same as Blackpaw's bite and less than Smolder's incinirate)
    2. Has the biggest rate of fire out of all the abilities above
    3. Single best cc ability in game while unchained (better than Cygnius' chain lightining and Ivy's roots)
    4. Unlike Smolder's incinirate you can focus certain group of minions to kill them quicker
    Imo you should either extend the cooldown by additional second (not sure about the number so i wrote something) and maybe nerf the T4 weaver from 50% to 30% cooldown reduction or add a scrap cost (10 scraps should do it)


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