Brass Feedback

13

Comments

  • xpendersx said:
    xpendersx said:
    Sure they use mana but with mana healing guardian, 2 mana trinkets, mana siphons and the increase in max mana when going unchained u might as well call it infinite.
    The only problem is all the mana regen stops during combat as the minions will hit you with arrows or a hunter behind you. So you still have to make sure that you have enough to keep in the battle.

    On the other hand brass can fire for a long time and doesn't have to get mana afterwards.
    Mage's picnic, mana guardian, mana/guardian potion an mana siphon keep the mana regen going during combat
    All of those are situational and you have to take them in the match while brass can just pop her unchained whenever she feels like it
    Also :
    • Cygnius' unchained lightning spam has nowhere near as much stopping power as brasses spam
    • Blackpaw can still get bursted down while unchained in extreme cases (it's extremely rare but can happen) and has no cc
    • Someone still has to pick up dobbin's money bags which can be a risk by itself and late game money isn't that important
    • Smolder has the same problem as blackpaw (can be bursted down even easier since she cant self sustain)
    I'm not saying they dont have op unchained abilities, I'm saying that no unchained can even be compared to brasses RMB
    1. It deals A TON of AoE damage (about the same as Blackpaw's bite and less than Smolder's incinirate)
    2. Has the biggest rate of fire out of all the abilities above
    3. Single best cc ability in game while unchained (better than Cygnius' chain lightining and Ivy's roots)
    4. Unlike Smolder's incinirate you can focus certain group of minions to kill them quicker
    Imo you should either extend the cooldown by additional second (not sure about the number so i wrote something) and maybe nerf the T4 weaver from 50% to 30% cooldown reduction or add a scrap cost (10 scraps should do it)



     All that does is nerf brass in every aspect and for what? Because her unchained at level 10 is bit to strong? Address the problem wich would he her unchained not when she isn't and not before level 10. 

    Like I mentioned before make it so when you go unchained you can't get 0 cool down everything's stays as is and she can't spam rmb or like teddy mentioned lower her unchained duration when picking the cool down weaver. Not nerf her cannonball just for the fact that when she goes unchained it is lesser than right now it really would not make sense.
  • LemartesLemartes Member, Early Access, Apprentice Founder
    xpendersx said:
    mdragoon said:
    So my 2 cents on Brass currently,

    Turret is bad, the initial summoning is bad, but the rate at which you upgrade and heal it is bad, let alone it is defenseless against archers. the damage it produces is also dwarfed by every other ability and resource Brass has at her disposal. In its current form you need to be able to near instantly or instantly upgrade the turret per tier and heal much larger chunks of health (33-50% per hit at a commensurate scrap cost).

    I've seen the cannonball rediculousness and know that's getting nerfed in some way because it is OP so that's fine. the primary attack and it's weird queuing makes everything feel weird playing her and I hope that's an easy fix but if not I can wait on it as it feels somewhat like a feature of how powerful the primary attack is currently.

    The scrap weavers may need buffs. Junk Yard is essentially a t4 weaver that is equivalent to giving the character 2.5 Mana regen per second, based on mana to scrap conversion a Brass Bomb costs 50 mana by default (20 scrap). This is essentially giving her what everyone else already has. This doesn't make it attractive other than the fact that she's a glass cannon and nothing in her entire weaver set will compete with the cannonball cooldown weaver currently.

    I love the ideas for the character i think they just need to be adjusted a bit to be in line with other characters. The turret currently has issues surviving rift lord, making it pointless for chaos trials unless you leave it T1 which nullifies most of its weaver choices as well. The core of the character has a lot of ideas, a little tuning and she'll be the best addition to the game yet.
    How is cannonball rediculous and OP? 
    Get 50% cd weaver, go unchained, hold down secondary attack. You now have a full auto, cannonball spraying, super weapon. Enjoy!
    This makes no sense at all - and half the heroes in the game would need to have unchained ability reduced.

    Blackpaw unchained = nonstop go for the throat.  This is better than brass as it even heals him - full auto super heal kill everything.

    Cygnus unchained = nonstop chain lightning.  On par with Brass and eliminates a wave easily.

    Dobbin unchained = nonstop dynamite +  a ton of money from the kills.  Better than Brass.

    Smoulder unchained = nonstop incinerate.  Make sure you have your Q on and everything is dead.  Better than Brass as you will combo like mad.

    Have you ever played any of the other heroes besides Brass ?  Unchained is very powerful for all of them and none have any problems taking out a lane.
  • In all honesty the problem with Cannonball is the animation getting clipped, not the cooldown. If the animation is required to play for a minimum amount of time it would reduce the spam when unchained.

    Alternatively giving it a base cooldown of 5s, with a -40% T4 weaver would make it 3s and help offset the unchained spam as well. I'm not sure on the math of this but as long as there is a slight pause between shots it would work.
  • In all honesty the problem with Cannonball is the animation getting clipped, not the cooldown. If the animation is required to play for a minimum amount of time it would reduce the spam when unchained.

    Alternatively giving it a base cooldown of 5s, with a -40% T4 weaver would make it 3s and help offset the unchained spam as well. I'm not sure on the math of this but as long as there is a slight pause between shots it would work.
    I do agree with the animation.

    I however disagree with the cool down increase, cause your nerfing all of brass because of something she does when going unchained 
  • xpendersx said:
    In all honesty the problem with Cannonball is the animation getting clipped, not the cooldown. If the animation is required to play for a minimum amount of time it would reduce the spam when unchained.

    Alternatively giving it a base cooldown of 5s, with a -40% T4 weaver would make it 3s and help offset the unchained spam as well. I'm not sure on the math of this but as long as there is a slight pause between shots it would work.
    I do agree with the animation.

    I however disagree with the cool down increase, cause your nerfing all of brass because of something she does when going unchained 
    Thats what they did to cygnus so why not with brass as well?
  • xpendersx said:
    In all honesty the problem with Cannonball is the animation getting clipped, not the cooldown. If the animation is required to play for a minimum amount of time it would reduce the spam when unchained.

    Alternatively giving it a base cooldown of 5s, with a -40% T4 weaver would make it 3s and help offset the unchained spam as well. I'm not sure on the math of this but as long as there is a slight pause between shots it would work.
    I do agree with the animation.

    I however disagree with the cool down increase, cause your nerfing all of brass because of something she does when going unchained 
    I would rather not change the cooldown either, but saying that it nerfs all of brass is a bit extreme. Care to explain how a cooldown change affects her primary attack, Brass bombs or turret?
  • the cannonball being free is a really important part of Brass' kit—since you so often don't have the time or hp to collect more scrap before dealing with enemies, having at least one damage option that isn't your primary attack that you can always use is necessary. the ability's damage and radius feel more or less perfect, so at this point i'd personally rather not see any changes to the base ability.

    as people have pointed out, it's only a t4 weaver that lets you spam the cannonball—capping the cooldown at a minimum of one second (as with ivy's penetrating arrow) would i think be the best solution, if it's really too strong. messing with the casting delay would make it much more awkward to weave cannonballs into the blunderbuss firing pattern, which you can currently do in a really satisfying way!
  • xpendersx said:
    In all honesty the problem with Cannonball is the animation getting clipped, not the cooldown. If the animation is required to play for a minimum amount of time it would reduce the spam when unchained.

    Alternatively giving it a base cooldown of 5s, with a -40% T4 weaver would make it 3s and help offset the unchained spam as well. I'm not sure on the math of this but as long as there is a slight pause between shots it would work.
    I do agree with the animation.

    I however disagree with the cool down increase, cause your nerfing all of brass because of something she does when going unchained 
    I would rather not change the cooldown either, but saying that it nerfs all of brass is a bit extreme. Care to explain how a cooldown change affects her primary attack, Brass bombs or turret?
    What I ment with nerfing all of brass was that by increasing the cool down it would make brass cannonball worse from start of the game till the end all because of what she can do for 15 seconds once level 10 

    I agree I could have phrased it better, hope this clears it up
  • HypovolemicHypovolemic Member
    edited December 2017
    In all honesty the problem with Cannonball is the animation getting clipped, not the cooldown. If the animation is required to play for a minimum amount of time it would reduce the spam when unchained.
    Good point. I do think the unchained cannonball machine gun is fun. An extra 0.25 second animation wouldn't take that away. Might even feel a bit better and less like an unintended behavior. 
    Post edited by Hypovolemic on
  • LemartesLemartes Member, Early Access, Apprentice Founder
    xpendersx said:
    In all honesty the problem with Cannonball is the animation getting clipped, not the cooldown. If the animation is required to play for a minimum amount of time it would reduce the spam when unchained.

    Alternatively giving it a base cooldown of 5s, with a -40% T4 weaver would make it 3s and help offset the unchained spam as well. I'm not sure on the math of this but as long as there is a slight pause between shots it would work.
    I do agree with the animation.

    I however disagree with the cool down increase, cause your nerfing all of brass because of something she does when going unchained 
    I would rather not change the cooldown either, but saying that it nerfs all of brass is a bit extreme. Care to explain how a cooldown change affects her primary attack, Brass bombs or turret?
    It would for me.  I don't use her mines much, and once cannonball stuns + cooldown reduction that is all I use.  I find the turret kinda Meh - especially since you have to dispel to replace.  So most of the time it ends up in a useless placement for me and I just don't bother to move it.

    This is all for nothing anyways - 90% of the cannonballs hit nothing since the first one kills the mob anyways and the other just explode on there death animation.  If they make her unchained have a limit - .5 seconds per cannonball should be max she can fire it will be fine.

    Max with T4 weaver unchained does the same thing as her.  Maybe we should slow down his crossbow while were at it.  I can easily go through a wave with Max and T4 weaver that makes his bolts hit multiple targets.  This is way too powerful.  I think his crossbow should only fire once every 3 seconds.

    Devs - don't mess with her cooldowns.  She is fine.  Just fix unchained and let us replace Turret anytime we want.
  • Again, the Cannonball unchained spam issue is an animation problem. Hopefully it can be fixed by making a portion of the animation play before starting the next attack.

    Short of that however, the cooldown likely needs to be changed and/or the T4 weaver nerfed. The rest of the kit would be unaffected and the damage could be increased slightly to maintain the current dps. Even the T2 weaver stun could be increased to maintain the CC effect despite the longer cooldown. This solution is not ideal but Brass is still far from perfect so small changes like these are not as problematic as some posters would have you believe, especially as this is only one issue with Brass currently.
  • no the cannonball spam is not a bad thing
    even with this unchain spam she is still really weak it would kill her to nerf her more 
  • If there was a sufficiently powerful turret weaver choice, not everybody would take the cannonball cooldown weaver. This may lead to the choice of insane spam but only when unchained, or not consistent damage when not unchained. 
  • LorelleLorelle Member
    edited December 2017
    Yea, it's not like being overpowered when Unchained is that big a deal considering that you rarely need THAT much power (especially compared to what other heroes get while Unchained, anyways, which is usually more than enough on non-Brass heroes to obliterate everything in the general vicinity) and that Unchained isn't something you can just spam.

    Mostly the animation just looks funky.
  • HopkinsFBIHopkinsFBI Member
    edited December 2017
    It would be cool if her wrench ability could be used to spend scrap to repair damage to barricades.

    Turret feels very strange to me, when I usually think of turret placement I think of putting it in a location with line of sight that is not accessible to minions. The current range on the turret makes it so you really have to place it in melee range to be effective and that it is more of a decoy to draw aggro. A buff to range either on upgrade or as a weaver is desperately needed. The 'lock-on' speed is also underwhelming, it's fairly useless at most cleanup tasks because it can only really target one enemy while the rest walk by.

    The whole scrap replacing mana thing (in regards to using gear like fire wall bracers or ring of storms) didn't make a lot of sense to me and was very jarring when first playing the hero. 


    Post edited by HopkinsFBI on
  • I like the barricade repair idea
  • The turret has a problem of diminishing returns. You have to invest so much time and scrap to upgrade it that you take away from Brass' far superior DPS. Why sit upgrading when you should be using canonball or placing mines to do damage to a wave? Or placing traps that won't die or require you to heal them [which takes a lot of time to do]. It's more practical to just plop a tier 1 turret down, let it die, replace. And never really think about it at all. But clearly that's not what the turret was designed for, which is why you can upgrade it, heal it, manage it and pick upgrades for it.

    I think the last weaver for the turret should be changed, to instead of restoring mana/health of allies to restore it's own health. I'd like if it could keep the healing/mana regen, but that seems like a lot. Regardless, then maybe the turret would feel like it's worth the time to upgrade to tier 3. Since it'll be capable of healing itself over time so you don't have to micromanage it so much.

    Given it's more useful to plop it down, let it die, then plop it down again as it is... I'd say to increase the turret's defense and/or health, so it can live longer and more consistently when under attack. But as a trade off for more survivability when it dies, put the turret on cooldown. As it is, a cooldown would be horrible since the turret dies like nothing. And you can't realistically heal it through damage either. Since you'll just hit enemies around it with your wrench instead. Even if you could heal it while it's surrounded, you'd still not be able to heal it fast enough. It's far more realistic to use your time to just attack the enemies yourself, with canonballs, or the mines or your primary. Another reason the health regen weaver would be a good idea. Gives it additional chance to live through a wave.

    The turret just does not work as it is. I want to love the turret, and invest in it, but it's far better to just go for mines and canonball. It's hard to even find a good spot where the turret won't grab aggro and will be able to attack.

    Another alternative would be to have a weaver to make the turret invisibile to aggro [maybe not bombs], but definitely not AoE damage. So like barricades. Then you wouldn't need the regen health, or to boost defense/health at all. You could slightly decrease the attack or attack speed to balance it out a bit. I think not needing to micromanage it as much would justify weaker attack/speed. Since your investment to upgrade it would go a long way, even if it's weaker it'll live longer and do more damage in the long run.

    It'd also be nice to have the turret's health information somewhere. Maybe it is, but I had to turn off all visual settings to maybe prevent the game from crashing during endless on PS4. Seems to help. But if it's not there, then it'd be nice to see this information so you know when your turret does need that little help, particularly on bigger maps. Brass isn't the best at rotating around.

    I don't know, just some ideas.
  • sashimiaksashimiak Member, Moderator, Robot Entertainment
    Thank you for that feedback Elvick, that is very well thought out and argued! I will be passing this along to Design, they might be able to draw some ideas from it!
    German Community Manager
  • BrasegapokBrasegapok Member
    edited December 2017
    So i've played with Brass for quite some time now and i've realized some things:

    • Brass's bullets visual effect will not go underneath the blunderbluss (example, shooting downstairs from upstairs OR jumping and shooting at your foots), it will only go in front of Brass, while the bullets impact effect are actuallyshown on the place it was aimed, i guess the attacking animation would have taken more time to be done if Brass needed to shoot underneath her.
    For a better understanding of what i am saying, here's a picture of the bullets https://drive.google.com/open?id=1HvFQk-uvxpFlFKJKG378G0s8TKdYegBT
    • Brass's primary attacks seems to generate scraps when damaging an unstable rift, just being damaged created a scrap under the rift, and the weird thing is that the passive of Brass said that minions can drop scraps upon death, yet the unstable rift is not a minion, and it wasn't destroyed
    • Brass's primary attacks also seems to generate scraps by damaging/destroying the orange crystal shards (the one that slows the heroes) generated by the kobold mercenary.
    • the blunderbluss (primary attack) seems the only weapon that has bullets that can pierce through ennemy minions with shields that are supposed to block frontal attacks, i tried on both ennemies with shields that can block frontal assaults, both gets damaged.
    • the swiss army wrench description doesn't mention that mercenaries damaged by the wrench generates scrap as well, probably needs a change on the text and become "ennemies" instead of "minions".


  • sashimiaksashimiak Member, Moderator, Robot Entertainment
    Thank you for the feedback Brasegapok! I have passed this along to the team so they can check if we need to adjust some descriptions or have some buggereenoes going on!
    German Community Manager
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