Patch Notes - Release 1.3 - The Orc Revolution

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Comments

  • @jacowboy, its so easy for you to stall Zoey's minigun though you can use terrain to your advantage. Waste her mana make her ineffective. There is counter play.
    From a drop of information can come a sea of extrapolation.
  • @jacowboy, its so easy for you to stall Zoey's minigun though you can use terrain to your advantage. Waste her mana make her ineffective. There is counter play.
    Sure... doesn't mean it's not a tad ridiculous... But apparently she's very hard to balance properly, so I'll just wait xD
  • I mean she had 2 nerfs in a row, and it's not like counter play to her isn't like counter play to smoulder... keep distance and watch for incinerate. hers is just avoid the rapid fire by stalling. Another thing is it doesn't require gear to use as counter play... cc, cc, and more cc
    From a drop of information can come a sea of extrapolation.
  • edited July 2016
    I mean she had 2 nerfs in a row, and it's not like counter play to her isn't like counter play to smoulder... keep distance and watch for incinerate. hers is just avoid the rapid fire by stalling. Another thing is it doesn't require gear to use as counter play... cc, cc, and more cc
    Still... I wouldn't play with zoey cause her normal main is too slow... I'd rather her normal was a bit faster, and her special a bit slower... you know? more balanced... But the burst+rapid fire, I find is a bit too lethal... and she's too reliant on specials in general.

    (I'm looking at it from a survival perspective as well, in case it wasn't clear)

  • @Pelozo Because fire and controlled resonator were the obvious choices, The ice resonator only works on ice and lasts short amounts of time while the Fire resonator has many many good traps to apply it and lasts 4 seconds. Also controlled resonator works for slows aswell as frozen, If an enemy is frozen, they will take extra damage from controlled resonator. That means controlled resonator was the ice resonator except just better in every way. 

    @2pro4u I actually dont think spike wall is very op, In combo situations its moderately lack luster, It doesnt do much damage, It doesnt hurt big minions whom they recently added hp to, Its a very hard trap to place well, especially in kill boxes, and it costs a lot of money, Why we saw it abused was because powergen made money nearly limitless. With the Powergen changes trap prices should matter (how much I couldnt say before I test the new powergen because theory crafting only gets you so far). Because money was no option people could place spike walls everywhere even in places it wasnt efficient and did well however any trap could be used like that with power gen, Moreso the expensive ones because of space and trap count. Wall pusher on the other hand is very easy to use with many effective spots to throw minions off the edge of maps and only cost like 400 gold or so without the price reduction

    @jacowboy Its unfortunate they took out solo endless :/, I didnt play it too much since I only really have a high tier gwall lol, but I see the appeal. I think they did it because its really hard to balance a map on many different difficulties and if they put solo, people will ask where is duo and so on. Its very possible to balance but they cant just write one scaling equation for each thing and changing the mobs would take a lot of time too. Im guessing they will add it when they have time to look at more complicated balancing in the future. In the meantime use your friendslist ;)

    I personally saw reason for all of the updates and liked them quite a bit.... except for the heros... How about we buff hunters a lot if needs be... and throw out heros :/ survival isnt about heros... its not pvp.. lol Also hero bots are dumb... you either get 1 hit or watch them run into the rift and die... you cant really dodge auto aim... hunters dont feel strong... of course not.. because we are so busy getting cheesed out of a game from heros, buffing hunters I have a hard time seeing it being welcomed by players.. even tho its not a bad idea.. heros need to go first imo... many people agree with me. Anything above 2 player, heros get dumb... I can sorta see it being managable in solo or duo, much else and you need ozeil or something just to deal with them.

    Cores im not sure yet, they said +100% however im not sure if its 6 cores per game to 7 cores.... or They just mean it matters a lot... 100% increase is a very good start.. 1 more core... meh... ill take it? Ive slowed down playing orcs tho (almost to a stop), because I was burned out from playing and feeling very unrewarded reguardless of grinding an entire 8 hours or something. If it was 100% increase I could really really see myself playing quite a bit again... of course given the heros arent 1 hitting me every game... 


    However, that being said, I think a lot of these changes were in a good direction, namely the power gen fix. I do believe they should have just put a cap of 2 power generators and reduce the base value to 15-20 gold per second instead of 25... It doesnt hurt siege since not too many people place more than 2 power gens each game in siege... and survival i dont really have to explain that one... and a small gold decrease would not have hit gold gens hard in siege im sure... But....Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou, thankyou, thankyou, thankyou... I dont want to be too picky since one of the most irritating things have been made playable again and less traps will be terrible choices (spikes, ice shard) since we dont have endless coin reserves. Im just hoping the community doesnt just take this as a reason to spam more power gens tho to get the same amount of money, but Ill take what I can get.

    Overall I think it was a great patch, it will be intresting to play it. 
  • Oh also, I just wanted to point out that I'm quite disapointed there's no fix for the rift issue still... It's a really bad mechanic that people can chase you back to your rift and actually kill you while you're trying to heal... if you make it to the rift, you should be safe... end of story. I'm really hoping that will be adressed in a future patch, and sooner rather than later.
  • edited July 2016

    Shield Powerup: GOOD. Very welcome change, now you can reasonably win a 1v1 vs someone who has it. 20% is still a bit high but it's certainly more livable than the previous 50.

    Hunter Minions: So they take LESS trap damage but heroes can kill them faster? I guess this is fine as they often ignore traps to begin with and mostly heroes rely on AoE to kill them anyways. Gabby will have a hard time killing them due to her lack of AoE.

    Bloodspike: KILLING BOSSES REMOVED? GOOD. More pigs? Seems fine, he isn't OP atm so minor buffs are ok.

    Stinkeye: THANK GOD. He was way too strong for how low his skill ceiling is. Spam slow totems and just deny player and minion progress / be spammed easily. I like that his right click is more viable making him consider rushing into wave to deal burst damage.

    Cygnus: Kind of alright I guess, didn't think feign was that good that it needed a nerf, dead useful seems kind of neat now? 5 seconds to get to rift to tele seems like a bit of a rush unless they're already at it.

    Hogarth: Pretty sure his winrate is high because he is only run in noob matches skewing your results. I can't see him reasonably winning balance games at high level, he has no utility and brings nothing useful to the table, objectively bloodspike is better in almost every way, and can even go as far as to gain absurd max health and spike healing every wave, something hogarth isn't capable of. He also has inherent minion support with his rush move that also gives minions temp health. Bionka also seems better than hogarth because she deals more damage, has immediate CC with option of trap disable AND she regens a ton of health near minions and has inherent minion damage reduction ability. Hogarth NEEDS a weaver in order to get minion support, which feels awkward and weird, I would think his tier 1 weavers should be reworked and maybe make shield always affect him and minions.

    Tundra: Seems kind of subtle, 3.0 to 3.5 seconds isn't a huge change, you'd generally be able to spam out frost still. Tundra's main thing is that he can spike with avalanche, has ez frost stack building and he can snap freeze regardless of stacks as well as make a wall denying enemy movement and often securing kills or halting pushes. He has way too many mechanically strong abilities for no downside. He also has the best escape in the game as it gives him literal ivy passive speed and CC immunity. It can also be upgraded to be a spike AND give him damage reduction during. 



    On an unrelated note, one thing I've noticed about this game and other Moba games is lack of neutral space. Moba maps are wide, open, and have 3 lanes. There is a huge amount of neutral jungle space, and towers aggro in a circle around them, allowing you to secure kills on fleeing opponents as they are only in a pseudo safe space that attacks enemies within range. However in this game lanes are pushed in one direction, and barriers are very much an issue for PvP design. In a moba game if I almost kill you and you run to your tower, I can still just take some damage from the tower in exchange for securing the kill. One direction lanes means that progress is only gained in a binary way, there is no push and pull, there is rooted in defense vs rooted in offense as leaving the lane to do anything else will result in progress being lost.

    In a moba all lanes are open at the start, allowing for inherent dynamic tactics, and finally all heroes/champions are on offense in some way in a moba, making it inherently PvP/team based. I understand you want to be like a moba as stated directly by devs, so perhaps you should consider some changes to the game to make it more moba oriented in a good way.

    In this game guardians heal and protect you with damage reduction, and if you are about to die you can flee behind a barrier and nothing can be done about it.

    Part of the skill ceiling in the moba is how you attack and what tactics you employ. Because the maps are open with a lot of neutral space that is safe to traverse, you have immensely high skill ceiling as well as options for great plays.

    There is no jungle in this game either, instead we have two fortresses with minion waves moving towards them and narrow lanes connecting them. 

    50% of the map is your base and it is safer to be in than the other half, which is the enemy base. A small % of moba maps are protected by towers and your end game rift or w/e it is based on the game. There is certainly an issue where in OMDU you cannot safely farm XP to recover levels in any sort of jungle as the only way to get XP through roaming are from pillaging, which are ALWAYS in the enemy base.

    It is also incredibly dangerous for offense to attack defense if defense has guardians up in between waves or after waves, as they will essentially never secure a kill and be constantly threatened by the guardian. Mobas are very dynamic, giving you the option to push with minions or attack players or employ a huge range of tactics. The key is that the playing field is even. You have the same minions as me and the same towers as me. The difference is my skill, tactics, and teamplay. Even with power up nerfs offense still doesn't have 20% damage reduction defense can get, or any other edges they can have.

    Some food for thought.


  • @Pelozo Because fire and controlled resonator were the obvious choices, The ice resonator only works on ice and lasts short amounts of time while the Fire resonator has many many good traps to apply it and lasts 4 seconds. Also controlled resonator works for slows aswell as frozen, If an enemy is frozen, they will take extra damage from controlled resonator. That means controlled resonator was the ice resonator except just better in every way. 

    Atleast we had a choice. Now everyone will use ice resonator + tundra/hogarth. 35% vs 70%? really?.
  • Nah, until they add a frost trigger, I'm still using the fire resonator... but the nerf is just dumb... like... why? It was perfectly fine as it was... I don't care about the bump to 70% for ice, because sure, it's more difficult to pull it off, but there is no real need at all to nerf the fire resonator, or the controlled one for that matter... =/
  • That resonator nerf will not affect me at all, other than force me to upgrade my traps to t7. :bleep_bloop:
    That aside, we'll get two new "playgrounds". Which is nice.
  • Then you will be losing 35% damage. Which is fine for regular survival, but not so good in endless.
  • edited July 2016
    Pelozo said:
    Then you will be losing 35% damage.
    "Sometimes, less is more" my friend. ;)
  • @pelozo I'm not gonna lie, I play endless a lot so I know how you feel but I won't be switching to ice resonator any time soon. Hog isn't good in survival so unless you play tundra constantly I cant see a single use for it. Even then it's still not the biggest deal since the damage from ice resonator won't come close. You have to camp your traps with tundra in order to have any luck reaching similar DPS. Let's face it. There are no consistant ice traps. Ice shard is the best one. Ice vent is there but charge traps are not all that great without repair kit and since the trap is so big it's situational at best. And the ice ceiling trap is kinda a joke. Many other traps are 100% better. Ice shards are ok but they do sub par damage, take a trap spot and eat your count. Even tundra traps are so long its hard to do much with them unless you dont want things like visc tar and you hate combos... realistically we lost 15% damage from the nerf and its not a big deal. It was over powered anyway. Now if unchained becomes more than a health and mana potion with a cooldown reset unchained resonator may be viable again. But ice resonator I still wouldn't think about unless I played tundra and its not something I'd specificly play tundra for anyway. Another way you could think about it.. I know 100% fact with only trap I can keep every enemy on fire or controlled through my entire kill box. Could you keep EVERY enemy frozen for half of the time it takes to get through the kill box consistently? I havent met anyone that can. Many things will get in your way Bombers, heros, elementals, archers, sappers, maybe a second kill box, ogres, and if you can't kill them when they are inside your kill box, all of which will force you out of your kill box unable to freeze them because traps don't cut it in the ice department. Pun intended. I do think arctic saw is a good trap (just not for high combo scores) but I also think its balanced even with the ice resonator.
  • SixOkay said:
    Designer Comment: Hogarth’s win rate is reasonable right now, however, we have heard many concerns about him being too weak. We want to buff him slightly in a way that allows him to initiate fights more effectively.
    The perception that Hogarth is weak may have a lot to due with his numerous play control issues.  If these issues were resolved, then player opinion of him might improve significant without any real change in the hero's power. When the human interface is glitchy, it creates frustration, distaste, etc. (Yeah, he probably has a couple minor balance issues too, but I think they are secondary concerns.)
  • Pelozo said:

    NEW FEATURE: FRIEND REFERRAL

    Players are now able to refer their friends and get rewarded! If your friend registers for an account and wins 5 matchmade (survival matchmaking, siege coop matchmaking, or siege PvP matchmaking) games, you will both receive a runebound chest. Even better, if your friend wins 20 games, you both win 2 runebound Chests, and at 50 wins, you both win 3 runebound Chests and an exclusive Blackpaw skin. Visit theRefer-a-Friend page (feature is live on July 12) for more information.

    Will this work with only one friend or with each one?
    Hopefully theres somekind of limit....I can see people abusing this with second client, running level 1 map over and over to 6 wins & repeat!
  • edited July 2016
    Removed post because it was long, annoying, and formatting is annoying me.
    Post edited by Blargerist on
  • edited July 2016
    Removed the double post. Not sure why the "waiting approval" issue can also cause double posts when it IS approved.
    Post edited by Blargerist on
  • Such huge comments lol

    But again, hey devs, really!?  Couldn't you  ad another feature that would give a chance for players who spent a huge amount of time on this game to win that skin as a prize without the trouble of have to bring friends?
    Like some of us already brought the friends we could. Me myself i brought 4... they left after a while and i now don't see opportunity to invite more. But really no reward for those who already spent more than 100, 200, 300 hours on this game? In my point of view those are  a lot XD maybe some of you don't think it is. And most of the players who spent that much time and are still playing are actually trying this game and the community to be better with theirs feedbacks and ideas so why not reward them? :/

    Ty for the fixes and balances tho :) (not cygnus :P lol )

  • edited July 2016
    Good patch except the limiting survival to 3 people.  WTF dumb change.  Forces people to be over level 80 and use keys every time they wanna play survival with a group of 4 or 5 people.   One of the main draws to this game "WAS" the fact that we can play with 4 or 5 of our friends on semi hard survival maps without having to get throw into the really hard endless mode.  Removing that kills a big portion of the game. 

    Congrats devs you have effectively ensured that my friends and i will play other games when we have 4 or 5 people.  Some of my friends are casual gamers that have no desire to be thrown into extremely hard endless mode.  The level 100 survivals with 5 people were fun for a group of casual gamers. 

    The lack of common sense here is baffling.  Removing one of the biggest draws to the game makes no sense in reality. 
  • As someone's who's favorite and most played hero is Max, I can say with confidence this isn't a nerf of him. I don't think I've ever used his decoy's as they aren't very strong to begin with. Nerfing them will have no effect as it doesn't address why he's so good. That being he can locks you in place hits you with a large burst damage then pops a shield that damages you if you try to attack, and if you don't run away fast enough he'll lock you in place again and finish you off. IE no one of his skills is OP, his skills just work with each other better than any other heros. Especially when you consider that his CC and Shotgun abilities are just as effective against groups of minions as they are against hero's.
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