Great Zoey Skirmish (stream highlight)

Just thought i would share had a great time during this fight.


«1

Comments

  • JacowboyJacowboy Member, Early Access
    Glad you posted this... this is like a video that perfectly encapsulates everything that's wrong with cheesy Zoey gameplay  :p

    She's become an assassin type of character with her absurd burst/minigun abilities. Oh and the book which makes for some nice one-hit kills... I mean, seriously, Blackpaw who? xD

    Also, PLEASE do something about rift-chasing/ganking. That's the absolute worst thing in the game, no questions asked...
  • xGpZxxGpZx Member
    I don't see anything especially cheesy about this maybe that i used E on the guardian for damage. Might Look OP at first but if you watch again you can see all players involved did not commit to fighting me and i exploited that. With the exception of the smolder at the end who in my opinion i killed by outplaying her. Book club to turn off her dragons breath and space her away from me, run so feebee can do damage, and turn at last second to punish her chase finishing her off. I don't know much about the guys i killed in this video but i can assure you on more experience players stuff like this doesn't happen.
  • I'm with GPZ on this, the only thing he did cheesy there would be the e on guardians. The players he killed, I've played before and yeah they aren't the most skilled. More skilled players either would have committed better or ran sooner to avoid death.
    From a drop of information can come a sea of extrapolation.
  • Looking back at the video, The dobbin could have done some high damage too him and was 2 levels below him the smoulder one level below him and the max 4, which explains why he melted the max with the arcane magic. If the smoulder were better he would have died for certain, but he did get lucky with that feebee freeze that you don't see took place off camera. The thing about zoey's chaos here that made her very powerful was gpz's luck with the buff spells. a mana and a healing when he needed them.

    May I ask which weavers you took gpz? looks like the last on was the running one, thinking you took the attack speed buff duration increase for the first. I don't think you took the mana sustain one. I'm leaning towards you having took the random buff duration increase.
    From a drop of information can come a sea of extrapolation.
  • xGpZxxGpZx Member
    Attack speed buff/ double attack speed for feebee/random buff duration/ full movement speed while buff is up.
  • Jw, why do you take the double feebee rate of fire? She has a somewhat limited range. I usually go with the mana one for longer sustained fights.
    From a drop of information can come a sea of extrapolation.
  • xGpZxxGpZx Member
    used to take that but with the double fire rate it helps secure kills i like to be right up in peoples face makes it harder for them to shoot back at you. Also helps secure kills from runners pre 12 have killed countless people by just running next to them instead of auto attacking when i have no mana which would just cause me to fall behind.
  • Might have to try that.
    From a drop of information can come a sea of extrapolation.
  • JacowboyJacowboy Member, Early Access
    edited July 2016
    I was not commenting on GpZ's gameplay, but Zoey's current cheesiness overall. 

    She shouldn't be able to E the guardian like that, and I think everyone agrees...

    But also: She shouldn't be able to chase heroes so easily back to rift for a kill (none should, but a BP or midnight you can understand at least since they're "assassins").

    And she shouldn't be able to spam the Q burst/rapid fire so much (and it's quite strong at high levels).

    Edit: Oh and btw, I mention this because I've been noticing a, let's call it "meta play" trend shift in regards to Zoey recently, where a lot of players have been using her as a combat character more and more and they end up getting most kills in a match, even with BPs and MNs present, which is sort of weird... I mean, I don't know if you guys have noticed the same trend, but I'm sure the devs have the stats that show Zoey's recent spike in lethality.
    Post edited by Jacowboy on
  • xGpZxxGpZx Member
    @Jacowboy after you change all that what is left? might as well plaster some new art onto her and make her a new hero your complaining about every aspect of her.

    Anyone who actually understands this game and can play it well knows Zoey after the several nerf bats she has been hit with is in a good spot. I agree with the guardian damage to some extent but if you change that amount of damage it does again it will almost not be worth using it at all.

    To solve the chasing issue you are suggesting pretty much removing an entire weaver in a tier that lacks anything else that is useful.

    After the damage from Q has been essentially halved in a past patch what more do you want? The only way you can sustain rapid fire is with proper cool down management. Not sure now how many times i have seen someone blow there whole load with zoey and then not know that to do because rapid fire is down. You make it sound like any derp can pick zoey up and be a God it does take practice.
  • There are 5 zoeys players that make her a threat that I have seen; most zoeys can get an occasional kill, but die too often to call the player skilled, same with midnight and blackpaw. Most zoeys I see are derps who die extremely easily. It's not like she has a but ton of health, it's not like she has 5 cc abilities, it's not like her abilities are static and do the same thing every time. Looking at it there are very specific moments where you want to do something with her and moments that appear the same but are the exact wrong moment to act with her. She also has no reliable escape.
    From a drop of information can come a sea of extrapolation.
  • JacowboyJacowboy Member, Early Access
    edited July 2016
    It's not abut nerfing her... it's about balance. What I would do, and that's just me and my pesonal opnion is:

    -Either:

    Decrease considerably the Q burst damage or range (just one of both). She already has a nuke and it's the book. She shouldn't have two of them.

    Increase her rapid fire speed BUT lower the damage depending on speed, meaning the faster she shoots, the lower the damage and make it progressive (as in at first she shoots very quickly but doesn't do much damage, and the damage scales up as her shots get slower).

    Also increase her regular attack speed but lower the damage accordingly.

    *All this in regards to players, not to minions... you can keep the damage to minions as is.

    -Or:

    Just increase her cooldown considerably for Q. I don't really like this option because it's a proper nerf and it's lazy, and it would be bad, specially for survival. I prefer the balancing option listed above.

    And yes, I do agree that it also requires skill, I'm not taking that away from you both... I know she's your main, and I know you're both good with her. I'm just saying, I picked Zoey for the first time ever the other day and even me, the "derp" in this instance, managed to kill a few times with that ability... so yeah, it felt a bit "cheap", particularly the initial Q burst.

    And again, I've been noticing a trend... but hey, I might be wrong. I dunno, I'm sure the devs have a better picture since they get the stats. So I guess we'll see...
  • xGpZxxGpZx Member
    @jacowboy how is her book a nuke? does almost no damage was nerfed in the past taking the weaver to make it do damage is a bad choice imo buff duration in the majority of situations is better.  Watch that video at about 1:05 does no damage its a spacing tool.
  • JacowboyJacowboy Member, Early Access
    xGpZx said:
    @jacowboy how is her book a nuke? does almost no damage was nerfed in the past taking the weaver to make it do damage is a bad choice imo buff duration in the majority of situations is better.  Watch that video at about 1:05 does no damage its a spacing tool.
    Yes but you can 1 hit kill with the book... it doesn't get more "nuke" than a literal one hit kill ability... Granted, it's not so easy to pull off, but the ability is there.
  • Yeah and that one hit ko takes a lot of prep and is easily avoidable.  it's not typically a superweapon nor should it be considered as one.
    From a drop of information can come a sea of extrapolation.
  • JacowboyJacowboy Member, Early Access
    Yeah and the payoff is ONE hit kill. xD

    It is a "superweapon" or a nuke, wether you agree or not. So is Bionka's btw and guess what, she doesn't have another nuke either.
  • The Q is not easily avoidable. The E can be depending on equipment. The Shift can be depending on mobility and hitbox.  She still has too much burst for one character. 
  • nick we were actually discussing the book club. And jacowboy if it were a nuke it would kill or near kill by itself each time it landed, which in most cases it doesn't, thus not a nuke.
    From a drop of information can come a sea of extrapolation.
  • JacowboyJacowboy Member, Early Access
    Okay fine, so it's only a nuke when you manage to throw the off the map... if you want... Just remember that she already has a proper nuke, her E. So the book is another potential nuke. So that's 2 really powerful attacks... and her Q burst does quite a bit of dammage too, followed by a rapid fire bonanza... And she doesn't depend on stacks like Oz or BS (and her mana consumption is rather low, considering). So that's 1 nuke, 1 burst and one potential nuke that can do CC.

    Tell me another character that has so much killing potential. Not even Blackpaw... although he can hit much much harder, but he's only got his bite basically.

    And again, I'm not arguing for a nerf, but for a balancing... you'll notice I suggested incresing both her regular main and her rapid fire speeds while making both less powerful, along with the Q's burst. Seems more than reasonable to me.
  • mathematically, the rate of fire and damage changes you suggested would have not effect on her dps during them... Also damage potential... Have you looked at smoulder recently? or stats of defensive players using her? She will often deal most player damage regardless of role and will easily out minion damage any other character. Her survivability is much higher than that of zoey, also having a reliable escape... And the thing isn't about killing potential, most characters have that in the bag. Cygnus actually has the highest dps, yes higher than zoey, he would win easily if they just stood in one place and shot each other. I don't even really care for her nuke at this point, a little sad if they got rid of it, but I don't depend on it. Though it has made a few saves before.

    so she has high damage, there are many other characters who do as well, she has no reliable escape. you can also stun her out and waste her ult easily. You also can't argue that she has a lot of health, that she moves quickly, or that she can escape from nearly any fight: she pretty much only has damage and a thing that moves you to her right several feet. Also take into consideration, she's the only character with any real form of randomness to her. You have to pray to RNGEEZUSS.

    I mean I've argued for so much nerf to her ult, if it makes you happy just get rid of it, I'd be a little sad, but not that much since it's not the core of zoey. 
    From a drop of information can come a sea of extrapolation.
«1
This discussion has been closed.