Temper Feedback

I like him so far. Overall I think he is a well-designed hero, definitely has his own unique mechanism than other heroes.

The thing I like most is the idea of incremental damage on his LMB. This should totally be implemented to other melee characters. Whoever came up with this idea that lowering the first hit damage while boosting the final blow should be praised. Those big yellow numbers really stimulate your adrenaline, but it won't feel OP because you have to accumulate two hits before that to happen, and when it happens it feels so rewarding.

I'd really like to see this more often. For example, dobbin has a two parts LMB attack as well. How about lowering his first hit and increase his second? or, rather, directly buff his second hit damage without nerfing the first (since he does need a damage buff compared to other heroes).

Now before I go to the part where I think temper may needs more tweaking, I'd like to talk about how I understand his playing style, because that is the ground for all further discussions.

Temper is all about rage control. Generally speaking, exploding temper's rage is bad. You lose all your rage, meaning you can't do anything if that costs rage. You were locked into an animation for a short period of time, meaning (again) you can't do anything in that period. During that animation you were considered attacking therefore you can't move fast, this is particularly bad because imagine the following scenario: you were dealing with a bunch of kobolds and one ran pass by, of course your first reaction is to turn back and chase it. But unfortunately your rage explodes at this time, you have to wait for the animation is over (which takes a few seconds, enough for that kobold to run past the corner). And even worse, after the animation you find yourself in an awkward position without any rage. You can't Q and chase, you can't shift and rush, you can't activate your ranged gear. Your only bet is your RMB, which has a flying animation and hard to aim for a kobold. You are so desperate, you immediately activated unchain trying to get yourself out of this awkward situation, only to find that unchain doesn't grant you any rage......

I hope by now you see the picture

A temper player should try to maintain a high rage (in case for something above-mentioned happens) but also manage it to NOT explode. This is quite hard because temper's abilities don't cost enough rage. I use two damage gears and all my abilities and I still find myself exploding a lot. I have to stop attacking and use Q to manage my rage. This is a bad feeling because temper should be encouraged to get in combat often rather than stay away from combat. Slightly increase the rage cost of his abilities may solve this problem.

With that being said, a temper's weaver build can be discussed.

Tier 1:

Anger loves company: why would aggro matter when everything in the circle dies? It's not like the exploding animation is super long that requires extra aggro to hold minions within.

Seeing red: stuns heavy minions with your shift rush, not particularly useful, but also no other better choice

Moment of zen: this weaver, and also other weavers related to temper's Q, is just counter-intuitive. If you play a melee class and you spend most of your time away from combat, what would be your contribution to the group? Temper should use his rage to deal damage rather than recovering his life. This weaver is just like the midnight weaver that reduces her respawn time. Pretty much labeled with something like "I suck at playing midnight, I die a lot therefore I need a weaver to reduce the respawn time", or "I suck at playing temper, I need to recover my life for most of the game therefore I need a weaver to keep me out of combat"

Tier 2:

Happy hooves: this is actually useful, not to recover life but to increase speed. However since there is another powerful weaver in this tier, this sadly has to be left

Blows his top: as said above, temper should try his best to NOT explode, therefore weavers around his passive should not be chosen

Rage machine: auto chose everytime. Grants you enough rage to open your next combat with double damage gears, or saving enough rage for you to Q or shift to rush to the next spot.

Tier 3:

Hammered: not bad weaver for increasing 3x damage for your RMB, but again, there's another weaver in this tier that is a must have

Set off: This is IMO a bit OP. But please don't remove it. It could still work with a nerf. How about reduce the range so that temper only activates traps within the tile that he stands on?
never mind, just found out that Temper can only reset ground traps within the ground aoe range. This makes this weaver not OP at all. Unlike Gabby's RMB, this weaver DOES NOT reset wall and ceiling traps. No tweaks needed for this.

Kicking mad: another good weaver. Tier 3 weavers are all good

Tier 4:

Happier place: 1) temper shouldn't Q often; 2) temper needs more ways to exhaust his rage, this weaver prevents that

explosive anger: 1) temper shouldn't explode often; 2) explosion already does enough damage, 25% more damage is overkill

stomping mad: not particularly good, but also no other good choices in this tier. Tier 4 weavers are all bad.

I'd like to make the following suggestions to make temper better

1) slightly increase his rage cost for his abilities to make it easier to control his rage
2) make unchained to reduce the rage cost to 0 for all temper's abilities. This way you avoid giving temper rage (to a point that he may explode) but also enables him to freely smack minions just as other heroes during unchain.
3) add a weaver that allows temper to regain 20% or 30% of his rage after explosion
4) reduce the range of his weaver that only set off traps within one tile, the tile he stands on
never mind, just found out that Temper can only reset ground traps within the ground aoe range. This makes this weaver not OP at all. Unlike Gabby's RMB, this weaver DOES NOT reset wall and ceiling traps. No tweaks needed for this.
Post edited by Harmonia on

Comments

  • edited February 23

    4) reduce the range of his weaver that only set off traps within one tile, the tile he stands on
    never mind, just found out that Temper can only reset ground traps within the ground aoe range. This makes this weaver not OP at all. Unlike Gabby's RMB, this weaver DOES NOT reset wall and ceiling traps. No tweaks needed for this.
    Tested this. It sets of floor, wall, and ceiling traps in at least a 2x2 trap radius (tested in through-pass on banquet hall). Edit: actually range seems to be about just over 1 trap length meaning that if you stand in the center of a 2x2 all traps in the 2x2 will trigger.
  • can you test it again? it surely didn't reset my stuck grinder

    or is it a bug? that temper only reset certain traps?
  • and it surely didn't reset ballistas as well
  • I'm not sure about the grinder, servers are down atm.

    But it resets or affects(even if they can't be reset) other wall traps like charger, naptha, power gen, arrow walls...
    Also ceiling ones work fine for me, I activated without problems gong, both pounders, haymaker, rod, zapper...

    I Agree with the Q not being so useful for players like you and I, but I would like to see what others think about it and it's weavers.

    I have a mixed opinion about the passive. I actually think that exploding can be useful and might deal more damage than just trying to keep your rage at 90% for your autoattack boost. If timed well with your E cooldown, you can get off of it soon enough to not lose much time while dealing decent damage. The only downside is the mobility.

    Agree about Tier 4 not feeling strong weavers.

    Disagree for now about the passive and rage costs. Unchained feels awkard for me aswell, can't spam skills felt weird when unchained.
  • Ballistas, grinders, and dot traps are weird. Ballistas get their timer reset but that doesn't mean that they retrigger right away. See my forum post about trip wire and devs response. 

    I tested with pounder for ceiling, arrow wall for wall. Both trigger 100% and completely synchronously when temper hammers it down. Tested it on two maps in fact, banquet hall and restricted area.

  • It triggers my SpikeWall as always.
  • edited February 23
    Same. Trap reset triggers wall and ceiling traps for me (Wall Chargers and Lightning Rod).

    My preferred fix for the trap reset would be to increase the cooldown on Hammer Slam to 10 seconds and move the weaver to tier 4. I also think the "more aggro" weaver should be for Hammer Slam instead, so a longer cooldown would make sense there as well. They could lower the cooldown on something else to compensate and/or increase the Rage cost and damage of Hammer Slam. 

    Though... It would still be an auto-buy then. Not sure how to solve that without making the trap reset baseline behavior. (And I don't like that idea.)
    Post edited by Hypovolemic on
  • so it only triggers cooldown-based traps and not charge-based traps?
    but it does reset brimstone, which is a floor trap
  • edited February 23
    so it only triggers cooldown-based traps and not charge-based traps?
    but it does reset brimstone, which is a floor trap
    Seems more likely it's a Grinder bug. 
  • Currently temper gets equal rage with each primary attack hit in sequence. It's 10 each. If this was redistributed to 5-10-15 it would allow some rage control .
  • edited February 23
    timemaster18 said:

    I have a mixed opinion about the passive. I actually think that exploding can be useful and might deal more damage than just trying to keep your rage at 90% for your autoattack boost. If timed well with your E cooldown, you can get off of it soon enough to not lose much time while dealing decent damage. The only downside is the mobility.

    saving rage is not for damage purpose only, its rather for flexibility

    what if you just exploded and one unstable rift spawns faraway from you? you have no rage to Q or shift, and without those, temper actually walks not that fast.

    or, what if you just exploded and got sniped by a fire mage or cyclops? you put yourself in a position where you are low on life and have zero rage. In order to get rage you need to get in combat again, but if you do that you are risking to die. Of course you can try your best to avoid being sniped, but why even give them the chance to put you into that position? why not always hold some card in hand to deal with this? you could have either Q away and recover or shift rush and hide.
  • Did you test for selective oddball trap reset issues?  For instance there are some spots where Gabby's rmb never resets grinders.  The second wall trap position at the top of the stairs in Crogon keep for instance, grinders on the bend and in the first position will reset, but the second never seems to do so.  My question is did you test several different grinder positions to see if there are map issues related to the issue?
  • edited February 24
    I do think Temper would be better if you could choose not to have him rage once his meter is full. Saving his rage for his powers seems stronger.

    I disagree about his tier 1 seeing red weaver. Stunning large minions is incredibly useful, it lets him use his stun to nearly stunlock a wave. IMO that is his strongest weaver. He stuns about in about a 2x8 line. So keep him at the end of a line  of traps that is that long and he will triple the damage output of your killbox.
  • I still think that Aggro Weavers and Support Weavers (Ivy party heal, etc.) just need to be removed from the game. The developers forgot they aren't building an MMO.

    I actually really enjoy Temper, but there are some down sides.

    So we can tell that Rage of the Forge was actually meant to be a good skill, considering how much Weavers there are for it. Problem is, the skill isn't helpful enough. You can't really save it for important times unless you was to just stop fighting and wait for cooldowns to lower your rage. I think the skill should just make you faster and stronger and lower you to 25% rage after it ends.

    I like his charge skill, but the server desync makes this skill really annoying. You never know if an enemy is not really where it shows he is, and if you aren't paying attention it might just sync up in bad positioning. Characters like Ivy and Bionka have this same issue, but at least you usually aren't behind the enemies when this happens. much less of an issue.

    Overall pretty good character. Happy to have him as an option. Really funny too.
  • I'm pretty sure temper's right click consumes a variable amount of Rage based on how much is accumulated and increases it's damage based on the amount consumed. It's probably the most unique skill in his arsenal for its ability to control his rage and deal damage as well as disrupting enemies so he doesn't have to avoid fights up close, damage a fleeing enemy, or to soften up things as he gets into a fight.

    I agree his rage management is a bit of an issue but at the same time a single combo gives temper enough rage to use any of his skills and most of the gear available in the game. 

    While I think the ability to explode with rage is useful in the right situations, and they are few, i also think that the weavers related to Happy Place don't seem useful and that the weavers related to the explosion don't seem necessary as well. If the explosion weaver does 25% more damage it becomes less useful the less often you explode. I would in turn actually just take increase rage generation if it was available as it would offer: more explosions; increasing his power at a more rapid pace; mana source for useable gear; Or sweet sweet hammer throws.

    Tier 4 weavers have the potential to be some of the most game changing and I don't feel that Temper's really have that impact yet but this is the first iteration of him... let's hope he doesn't get the Stinkeye treatment and they just tweak him "slightly"


    Archivist of the Order, feel free to ask me any questions you have!
  • Not going to lie.....Temper is horrible to play. If you're playing the conventional way, you have to run out of the killbox and attack to build 'Rage'. To do this, is to miss out on combos and coin as well as putting yourself at risk. His attacks feel ineffective, he's not tanky enough to suit his own playstyle and the only thing worthy of note about him is his shift ability.

    As for balancing him, his basic attacks not hitting like a wet tissue would be a good start but the thing that needs to change the most is that his 'Rage' is replaced with good old mana and may we never speak of replacing it ever again! A patch was released a while back stating that you want OMDU to feel like an OMD game, getting rid of the silly 'Rage' is one way of showing it.

    It just feels like this hero is more directed at kids who want to run around attacking everything and button mashing rather than playing to win. That and seemingly every time I've teamed with anyone playing Temper, they just do awful. It's getting to the point where I am considering 'Temper dodging' in the lobbies! Rework please :)
  • Well done.
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