Sabotage Matchmaking

VarthftwVarthftw Member
edited June 2017 in General Discussion
Okay I have made many posts about how sabotage matchmaking needs to be reworked and I will prove why. It has been made clear by the devs on this forum that if no match can be found that it just matches any groups of players together after about 3-4 minutes to help with low queue times.

Matchmaking should always be fair and when you have a top 5 player with his group of three (diamond 1) be put against a new player, me( gold v on alt), And a silver player this is a huge issue. I waited about 4 minutes in a queue which is fine I can wait ten minutes or so I am not bothered by it. How is this even allowed to be matched against a top 5 player who is three stacking vs a bunch of randoms who is gold 5 at the highest?
Top players can easily abuse this, not saying he did in this case, but it overall leads to a super unfun game and super skewed and rigged leader board.

IN any other game I've played the matchmaking would not allow for this to ever happen top 50 players are only going to be against the top 50 players every time regardless of grouped or not. This NEEDS TO BE TOP PRIORITY FOR FIXING ON THE NEXT PATCH!!! It is already hard enough to try to win two games as sabotage, but when matchmaking is so unfair like this it makes it impossible for newer players and any player wanting to queue by themselves.

Proof:
http://imgur.com/a/MQYnc

Please Seriously look into this and fix asap this is extremely frustrating from so many angles. THis is me solo queuing by the way we are not a group of 3 we are all solo players

Post edited by Harmonia on
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Comments

  • TimeMasterTimeMaster Member, Early Access
    The other 2 are probably bronze, silver or not even close to platinum. That's how you boost a diamond player to the top.

    You can check yourself how the guild is just Gold. However, how do you even expect the top50 to be restricted to play only against themselves?

    My queues would be of hours if not days.
  • VarthftwVarthftw Member
    edited June 2017
    The other 2 are probably bronze, silver or not even close to platinum. That's how you boost a diamond player to the top.

    You can check yourself how the guild is just Gold. However, how do you even expect the top50 to be restricted to play only against themselves?

    My queues would be of hours if not days.
    I am expecting a group of three at least play against another group of three at the bare minimum. Would be nice to have a matchmaking system that doesn't gives balancing after a few minutes because of wait time. When you lose a sabotage match you get less cards than winning, so how does that help you win the next one. Forcing two wins instead of two full matches. Having a leadeerboard system that people can abuse because of the flawed matchmaking system. There a lot of things that can be better.
    Post edited by Varthftw on
  • hoosurjustinhoosurjustin Member
    edited June 2017
    The other 2 are probably bronze, silver or not even close to platinum. That's how you boost a diamond player to the top.

    You can check yourself how the guild is just Gold. However, how do you even expect the top50 to be restricted to play only against themselves?

    My queues would be of hours if not days.
    Actually, we're platinum (just started playing after a year hiatus since siege was removed). Timemaster, are we going to have to have another discussion of be overly presumptuous? Don't even get me started on the nonsense you post in global chat about "people dodge me" in sabotage. 

    Let's be clear. If you're a good player, you wouldn't need to broadcast it. People would know.  Even back when Siege was still a game mode, you weren't noticeable at all to NA players so cool it :) (unlike Kearv, robbie, DRM, Shivz, etc).
    Post edited by hoosurjustin on
  • TimeMasterTimeMaster Member, Early Access
    The other 2 are probably bronze, silver or not even close to platinum. That's how you boost a diamond player to the top.

    You can check yourself how the guild is just Gold. However, how do you even expect the top50 to be restricted to play only against themselves?

    My queues would be of hours if not days.
    Actually, we're platinum (just started playing after a year hiatus since siege was removed). Timemaster, are we going to have to have another discussion of be overly presumptuous? Don't even get me started on the nonsense you post in global chat about "people dodge me" in sabotage. 

    Let's be clear. If you're a good player, you wouldn't need to broadcast it. People would know.  Even back when Siege was still a game mode, you weren't noticeable at all to NA players so cool it :) (unlike robbie, DRM, Shivz, etc).
    I don't even know you, wait were you the one calling me out and saying the same some months ago...  

    I have no idea of why you are doing it again and with something you probably don't even know about. I have yet to play against any of you, but If I say something is because it's true, not trying to look cool or any other stupid reason. I even have proof of players doing it. Many times players just give up on wave 1 or 2 when they play against a premade, others have literally sat in the dashboard just waiting for our team to get in a game before queueing, I'm talking about players that are now diamond.

    Thankfully it's not as bad as in Siege where you would win against them and they would be very frustrated, here atleast they lose by themselves to most extent and it isn't direct pvp after all.

    Let's be clear. If your clan wanted to be high in the sabotage rankings why do you ask around for bronze players to join your parties? To rank faster with no penalty? Oh wait, the penalty is actually for the bronze player when you play against higher ranks than him. Even if it's a loophole it's still awful and disgusting.
    That only achieves the bronze player to get next to no MMR when winning against decent teams but making him take the biggest loss on the defeats isntead of the high ranked of the team, very nice of you.
  • The other 2 are probably bronze, silver or not even close to platinum. That's how you boost a diamond player to the top.

    You can check yourself how the guild is just Gold. However, how do you even expect the top50 to be restricted to play only against themselves?

    My queues would be of hours if not days.
    Actually, we're platinum (just started playing after a year hiatus since siege was removed). Timemaster, are we going to have to have another discussion of be overly presumptuous? Don't even get me started on the nonsense you post in global chat about "people dodge me" in sabotage. 

    Let's be clear. If you're a good player, you wouldn't need to broadcast it. People would know.  Even back when Siege was still a game mode, you weren't noticeable at all to NA players so cool it :) (unlike robbie, DRM, Shivz, etc).
    I don't even know you, wait were you the one calling me out and saying the same some months ago...  

    I have no idea of why you are doing it again and with something you probably don't even know about. I have yet to play against any of you, but If I say something is because it's true, not trying to look cool or any other stupid reason. I even have proof of players doing it. Many times players just give up on wave 1 or 2 when they play against a premade, others have literally sat in the dashboard just waiting for our team to get in a game before queueing, I'm talking about players that are now diamond.

    Thankfully it's not as bad as in Siege where you would win against them and they would be very frustrated, here atleast they lose by themselves to most extent and it isn't direct pvp after all.

    Let's be clear. If your clan wanted to be high in the sabotage rankings why do you ask around for bronze players to join your parties? To rank faster with no penalty? Oh wait, the penalty is actually for the bronze player when you play against higher ranks than him. Even if it's a loophole it's still awful and disgusting.
    That only achieves the bronze player to get next to no MMR when winning against decent teams but making him take the biggest loss on the defeats isntead of the high ranked of the team, very nice of you.
    We haven't recruited a single bronze. Where are you getting your evidence from? Our guild consists of only 5 or 6 people with ranks (rest are inactive ever since Siege is gone). Also, in that premade screenshot, I don't see how two platinums and 1 diamond is anywhere close to what you're suggesting.

    Yet again, you spew some nonsense despite saying this above "but If I say something is because it's true, not trying to look cool or any other stupid reason". You just made some absurd claim about our league recruiting bronze, when you have NOTHING factual to prove that.
  • sashimiaksashimiak Member, Moderator, Robot Entertainment
    Guys, please keep this discussion on topic and stay friendly. 
    German Community Manager
  • TimeMasterTimeMaster Member, Early Access
    I wish I could post them here, but they would get deleted.

    This is on-topic though. OP is complaining about premades playing against soloQ, but that's not the only problem about some premades here. When top players party with low ranked ones, they are confusing the matchmaker even more and end up having higher chance to match them with mid or low rank players, which is usually a very one-sided situation.
  • Especially if thoose (downranked) teams usually faces teams out of the starter region :D
  • Why can't you just enter matchmaking at the same?
    Then both of you get matches and you can try your "tactics" against one another.
  • Why can't you just enter matchmaking at the same?
    Then both of you get matches and you can try your "tactics" against one another.
    There are diffent queues between EU and NA. And even if we would be in the same q as Premades, then we wouldnt face each other because of downranking (adding bronze player to party).^^
  • The other 2 are probably bronze, silver or not even close to platinum. That's how you boost a diamond player to the top.

    You can check yourself how the guild is just Gold. However, how do you even expect the top50 to be restricted to play only against themselves?

    My queues would be of hours if not days.
    Actually, we're platinum (just started playing after a year hiatus since siege was removed). Timemaster, are we going to have to have another discussion of be overly presumptuous? Don't even get me started on the nonsense you post in global chat about "people dodge me" in sabotage. 

    Let's be clear. If you're a good player, you wouldn't need to broadcast it. People would know.  Even back when Siege was still a game mode, you weren't noticeable at all to NA players so cool it :) (unlike robbie, DRM, Shivz, etc).
    I don't even know you, wait were you the one calling me out and saying the same some months ago...  

    I have no idea of why you are doing it again and with something you probably don't even know about. I have yet to play against any of you, but If I say something is because it's true, not trying to look cool or any other stupid reason. I even have proof of players doing it. Many times players just give up on wave 1 or 2 when they play against a premade, others have literally sat in the dashboard just waiting for our team to get in a game before queueing, I'm talking about players that are now diamond.

    Thankfully it's not as bad as in Siege where you would win against them and they would be very frustrated, here atleast they lose by themselves to most extent and it isn't direct pvp after all.

    Let's be clear. If your clan wanted to be high in the sabotage rankings why do you ask around for bronze players to join your parties? To rank faster with no penalty? Oh wait, the penalty is actually for the bronze player when you play against higher ranks than him. Even if it's a loophole it's still awful and disgusting.
    That only achieves the bronze player to get next to no MMR when winning against decent teams but making him take the biggest loss on the defeats isntead of the high ranked of the team, very nice of you.
    We haven't recruited a single bronze. Where are you getting your evidence from? Our guild consists of only 5 or 6 people with ranks (rest are inactive ever since Siege is gone). Also, in that premade screenshot, I don't see how two platinums and 1 diamond is anywhere close to what you're suggesting.

    Yet again, you spew some nonsense despite saying this above "but If I say something is because it's true, not trying to look cool or any other stupid reason". You just made some absurd claim about our league recruiting bronze, when you have NOTHING factual to prove that.
    btw you should use your your calculator for evidence. xD
    you said there are 5-6 people ranked in your guild. Lets start with 6ranked members. 
    1x Diamond 1 
    2x Platinum 4
    3x Unknown Rank
    Guildrank Gold 1

    ==> This ends in an highest possible  average Rank of Silver 1 for the unknown ranked players.
            (lower if there is no player with a rank below Gold 3)

    Now we do the same with 5 ranked players.
    1x Diamond 1
    2x Platinum 4
    2x Unknown Rank
    Guildrank Gold 1

    ==> Highest Possible average Rank of Silver 3 for the unknown ranked players.
           (lower if there is no player with a rank below Gold 3)

    but yeah this had nothing to do with the topic.

    @Varthftw
    I think your Party was at this time the highest ranked party in q after the [Pride] one and i assume they had a queuetime of 9+min for this kind of match.

    @hoosurjustin
    at theese days its just easy to assume that there is a low rank player in your team. And there is a reason why something is assumed. 

    1. you cant see a specific players rank if he isnt in the top 100 or friendlist. 
    2. One of your partymember is known to party up with lowerst Ranks on purpose. And this for 2 Month! More if he didnt stopped it. :)
  • The other 2 are probably bronze, silver or not even close to platinum. That's how you boost a diamond player to the top.

    You can check yourself how the guild is just Gold. However, how do you even expect the top50 to be restricted to play only against themselves?

    My queues would be of hours if not days.
    Actually, we're platinum (just started playing after a year hiatus since siege was removed). Timemaster, are we going to have to have another discussion of be overly presumptuous? Don't even get me started on the nonsense you post in global chat about "people dodge me" in sabotage. 

    Let's be clear. If you're a good player, you wouldn't need to broadcast it. People would know.  Even back when Siege was still a game mode, you weren't noticeable at all to NA players so cool it :) (unlike robbie, DRM, Shivz, etc).
    I don't even know you, wait were you the one calling me out and saying the same some months ago...  

    I have no idea of why you are doing it again and with something you probably don't even know about. I have yet to play against any of you, but If I say something is because it's true, not trying to look cool or any other stupid reason. I even have proof of players doing it. Many times players just give up on wave 1 or 2 when they play against a premade, others have literally sat in the dashboard just waiting for our team to get in a game before queueing, I'm talking about players that are now diamond.

    Thankfully it's not as bad as in Siege where you would win against them and they would be very frustrated, here atleast they lose by themselves to most extent and it isn't direct pvp after all.

    Let's be clear. If your clan wanted to be high in the sabotage rankings why do you ask around for bronze players to join your parties? To rank faster with no penalty? Oh wait, the penalty is actually for the bronze player when you play against higher ranks than him. Even if it's a loophole it's still awful and disgusting.
    That only achieves the bronze player to get next to no MMR when winning against decent teams but making him take the biggest loss on the defeats isntead of the high ranked of the team, very nice of you.
    We haven't recruited a single bronze. Where are you getting your evidence from? Our guild consists of only 5 or 6 people with ranks (rest are inactive ever since Siege is gone). Also, in that premade screenshot, I don't see how two platinums and 1 diamond is anywhere close to what you're suggesting.

    Yet again, you spew some nonsense despite saying this above "but If I say something is because it's true, not trying to look cool or any other stupid reason". You just made some absurd claim about our league recruiting bronze, when you have NOTHING factual to prove that.
    btw you should use your your calculator for evidence. xD
    you said there are 5-6 people ranked in your guild. Lets start with 6ranked members. 
    1x Diamond 1 
    2x Platinum 4
    3x Unknown Rank
    Guildrank Gold 1

    ==> This ends in an highest possible  average Rank of Silver 1 for the unknown ranked players.
            (lower if there is no player with a rank below Gold 3)

    Now we do the same with 5 ranked players.
    1x Diamond 1
    2x Platinum 4
    2x Unknown Rank
    Guildrank Gold 1

    ==> Highest Possible average Rank of Silver 3 for the unknown ranked players.
           (lower if there is no player with a rank below Gold 3)

    but yeah this had nothing to do with the topic.

    @Varthftw
    I think your Party was at this time the highest ranked party in q after the [Pride] one and i assume they had a queuetime of 9+min for this kind of match.

    @hoosurjustin
    at theese days its just easy to assume that there is a low rank player in your team. And there is a reason why something is assumed. 

    1. you cant see a specific players rank if he isnt in the top 100 or friendlist. 
    2. One of your partymember is known to party up with lowerst Ranks on purpose. And this for 2 Month! More if he didnt stopped it. :)
    Actually, it's not a straight average. A month ago, Terry was the only member with a rank, so our sabotage rank was platinum. The second N0thing and I got our first starting ranks (gold 3), our guild rank was gold 3. I was surprised myself that the guild rank wasn't higher since Terry was platinum. Unless a dev comes in and tells us exactly how guild ranks are calculated, I'll take your calculation with a grain of salt.
  • terrysongcnterrysongcn Member
    edited June 2017
    The other 2 are probably bronze, silver or not even close to platinum. That's how you boost a diamond player to the top.
    They are platinum, not bronze. And to be fair, their current bracket don't represent their true skills. They deserve diamond much more than any other player who currently is at diamond, including you.

    But sadly, in sabotage ranking doesn't represent skill, simply because matchmaking is not creating fair matches. If matchmaking is actually doing its job, the MMR gained/lost should be around the same for every game between two teams with similar skills. Again, due to the unfair matches, I win a little but lose a lot. The only way to reduce the frustration caused by the matchmaking system is to group with some lower ranked teammate. I showed them my killbox, taught them how to play, those players would rather play with me and won instead of go matchmaking and get paired with people who don't know what they were doing and lose over and over again. I consider that a win-win.

    After justin and nothing came back, we started playing together. I was platinum 5, they were gold 3. We played all the way together until I reached diamond 1 and they reached platinum 3 and 4. Yes they helped me boosting my rank, but that's only because the matchmaking system hasn't given justin and nothing the proper ranking they deserved yet.

    Like I said already, ranking doesn't represent skill. If you have any questions about any PRIDE member's ranking, you are welcome to join PRIDE guild and have a look at yourself. If you have any questions about our skills, we are more than happy to play some custom games with you. Aren't you the one saying that all diamond players dodge you in sabotage games? PRIDE is not gonna do that. I heard EU players have better skills than NA players? come setup a date/time for some games then and lets see who is actually better.
  • VarthftwVarthftw Member
    edited June 2017
    Just to be clear this wasnt ever supposed to be a thread to attack each other. It was to try to explain why a match like this should of never of happened in the first place. You can see the amount of grief it can cause simply by having a match like that. Its not fun for the new players and its not even close to fair

    again it happened where my alt is matched up against players that shouldn't ever be in a game with. The fact that this happens on multiple instances is proof that matchmaking is needing to be fixed asap not hiding the issues of it with another game mode. IF this is jsut going to be an everyday thing where matchmaking cant be balanced then Im done. You lost a youtuber, streamer, and content producer.


    http://imgur.com/a/nXGt9

  • Varthftw said:
    Just to be clear this wasnt ever supposed to be a thread to attack each other. It was to try to explain why a match like this should of never of happened in the first place. You can see the amount of grief it can cause simply by having a match like that. Its not fun for the new players and its not even close to fair

    again it happened where my alt is matched up against players that shouldn't ever be in a game with. The fact that this happens on multiple instances is proof that matchmaking is needing to be fixed asap not hiding the issues of it with another game mode


    http://imgur.com/a/nXGt9

    You creating alts to play sabotage is a problem as well. Either you don't want to lose your main rank, or you want to play against low ranks. Either way, smurfing is another issue that mm can't resolve.
  • VarthftwVarthftw Member
    edited June 2017
    Varthftw said:
    Just to be clear this wasnt ever supposed to be a thread to attack each other. It was to try to explain why a match like this should of never of happened in the first place. You can see the amount of grief it can cause simply by having a match like that. Its not fun for the new players and its not even close to fair

    again it happened where my alt is matched up against players that shouldn't ever be in a game with. The fact that this happens on multiple instances is proof that matchmaking is needing to be fixed asap not hiding the issues of it with another game mode


    http://imgur.com/a/nXGt9

    You creating alts to play sabotage is a problem as well. Either you don't want to lose your main rank, or you want to play against low ranks. Either way, smurfing is another issue that mm can't resolve.
    I have an alt not alts like you assume because it was something I made so I could play fresh  as a streamer with the newer players I get to play. I simply play it to finish the quests on it each day. Why attack me? I am not smurfing simply playing with others promoting the game and yet You are trying to troll me. Why is that If I bring up valid issues you try to attack the person and distract from the reason this post was made.

    The issue is that matchmaker gives up finding a fair match after a few minutes and it will place any group in a match even if the match is not fair.
  • Varthftw said:
    Varthftw said:
    Just to be clear this wasnt ever supposed to be a thread to attack each other. It was to try to explain why a match like this should of never of happened in the first place. You can see the amount of grief it can cause simply by having a match like that. Its not fun for the new players and its not even close to fair

    again it happened where my alt is matched up against players that shouldn't ever be in a game with. The fact that this happens on multiple instances is proof that matchmaking is needing to be fixed asap not hiding the issues of it with another game mode


    http://imgur.com/a/nXGt9

    You creating alts to play sabotage is a problem as well. Either you don't want to lose your main rank, or you want to play against low ranks. Either way, smurfing is another issue that mm can't resolve.
    I have an alt because it was something I made so I could play fresh  as a streamer with the newer players I get to play. I simply play it to finish the quests on it each day. Why attack me? I am not smurfing simply playing with others promoting the game and yet You are trying to troll me. Why is that If I bring up valid issues you try to attack the person and distract from the reason this post was made.

    The issue is that matchmaker gives up finding a fair match after a few minutes and it will place any group in a match even if the match is not fair.
    Did I hit a soft spot? I'm simply pointing out another potential problem, aside from matchmaking. 
  • VarthftwVarthftw Member
    edited June 2017
    Varthftw said:
    Varthftw said:
    Just to be clear this wasnt ever supposed to be a thread to attack each other. It was to try to explain why a match like this should of never of happened in the first place. You can see the amount of grief it can cause simply by having a match like that. Its not fun for the new players and its not even close to fair

    again it happened where my alt is matched up against players that shouldn't ever be in a game with. The fact that this happens on multiple instances is proof that matchmaking is needing to be fixed asap not hiding the issues of it with another game mode


    http://imgur.com/a/nXGt9

    You creating alts to play sabotage is a problem as well. Either you don't want to lose your main rank, or you want to play against low ranks. Either way, smurfing is another issue that mm can't resolve.
    I have an alt because it was something I made so I could play fresh  as a streamer with the newer players I get to play. I simply play it to finish the quests on it each day. Why attack me? I am not smurfing simply playing with others promoting the game and yet You are trying to troll me. Why is that If I bring up valid issues you try to attack the person and distract from the reason this post was made.

    The issue is that matchmaker gives up finding a fair match after a few minutes and it will place any group in a match even if the match is not fair.
    Did I hit a soft spot? I'm simply pointing out another potential problem, aside from matchmaking. 
    the account wasn't made to smurf which is what you are assuming you don't need to be rude about it. This account help bring in more players to this game which is healthier for the long run, I guess you just assume bad things from an alt. Now this forum is not staying on the point of its topic, which is what I am trying to stay on.
  • VarthftwVarthftw Member
    edited June 2017
    Varthftw said:
    Varthftw said:
    Just to be clear this wasnt ever supposed to be a thread to attack each other. It was to try to explain why a match like this should of never of happened in the first place. You can see the amount of grief it can cause simply by having a match like that. Its not fun for the new players and its not even close to fair

    again it happened where my alt is matched up against players that shouldn't ever be in a game with. The fact that this happens on multiple instances is proof that matchmaking is needing to be fixed asap not hiding the issues of it with another game mode


    http://imgur.com/a/nXGt9

    You creating alts to play sabotage is a problem as well. Either you don't want to lose your main rank, or you want to play against low ranks. Either way, smurfing is another issue that mm can't resolve.
    I have an alt because it was something I made so I could play fresh  as a streamer with the newer players I get to play. I simply play it to finish the quests on it each day. Why attack me? I am not smurfing simply playing with others promoting the game and yet You are trying to troll me. Why is that If I bring up valid issues you try to attack the person and distract from the reason this post was made.

    The issue is that matchmaker gives up finding a fair match after a few minutes and it will place any group in a match even if the match is not fair.
    Did I hit a soft spot? I'm simply pointing out another potential problem, aside from matchmaking. 
    Its not Like I made the alt to boost diamond 1 players or anything I simply solo queue on it and am explaining the frustrations with unfair matchmaking. I made the account to play survival with the new players I bring in when I stream. It kind of seemed passive aggresive to me, so ifn ot then sorry. Smurfing isnt really a thing because you can simply queue up as a group of high ranked players and always get into a gam with randoms who are new because the matchmaker will give up after a few minutes.
  • I agree with you regarding the MM system, but the devs beat this issue to death. Basically, there are two scenarios based on the low server population.

    1. Insanely long queue times
    2. After a certain amount of time, a game is put together, no matter how unfair.

    The devs took the latter, and I have to agree with them. When I first started playing Sabotage, I was hit with Swifty, memorize, and dance. Guess what, you learn and move on. I would rather have encountered that situation than not having the chance to play at all. It's a pretty big turn off to wait for a long time just to play a game (would this really attract new players if they think the game is dead?).
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