Collection of Bouncer Bear related Issues

NarkhNarkh Member
edited December 2017 in Bugs & Technical Issues
I was playing on a CT map featuring Persistent Barricades modifier, when a Bouncer Bear spawned and ran to a minion wave next to a gate with 3 destroyed barricades (they died to Kamikaze Kobolds earlier on). There were no other barricades around that gate. Shortly after, the bear died and the kill message was displayed showing the Great Wall Barricade as the killer. There were no other significant damage sources around, so I guess he had to take damage from 2 Revenge runes to die.

Long live the BugBear!
Post edited by sashimiak on

Comments

  • Case in point:



    That is some strange behavior. He rushed at charge speed down south for whatever reason (he spawned at the NW gate if you didn't see it), then after hitting me, he attempted to go toward the rift for a second.

    This is on Temple Graveyard (War Mage), but I've seen him do the exact same thing on Eventide Ramparts (War Mage), which is run around at constant charge speed, completely ignoring me.

    Is this intentional? He didn't behave this way before. If this is intended, that makes him incredibly difficult to deal with.
  • Bouncer Bear is getting angry!
  • i'm wondering this too—i remember this behaviour occurring in earlier versions, but it disappeared long before 2.5. the bouncer bear just charges around absolutely everywhere, hitting barricades far away from where i am and refusing to actually attack or move towards me most of the time. it's infinitely more dangerous, erratic, and difficult to handle while it's doing this, and it's ruined a couple of tricky chaos trials already. ^^;
  • KulinaKulina Member, Moderator, Robot Entertainment
    Hello guys!

    Bouncer Bear had a behavior added for 2.5 that makes him search for and "hunt" minions so that he can escort them. Of course, hunting players is a higher priority, so that kicks in when a player gets too close to him. This behavior was added to keep him close to minions instead of having him wandering to the rift down a separate path. And he does rush when "hunting", so he'll go over barricades to get to the minions.

    Cheers!
    French Community Manager
  • I haven't experienced this behavior yet, but I hope this new "minion hunting" has a pattern to it and doesn't glitch.  Otherwise I feel like it will be very annoying to have the bear spawn across the map and immediately start running around randomly destroying bearicades. 
  • ... randomly destroying bearicades. 
    I think that is the point of the new behavior.
  • Kulina said:
    Hello guys!

    Bouncer Bear had a behavior added for 2.5 that makes him search for and "hunt" minions so that he can escort them. Of course, hunting players is a higher priority, so that kicks in when a player gets too close to him. This behavior was added to keep him close to minions instead of having him wandering to the rift down a separate path. And he does rush when "hunting", so he'll go over barricades to get to the minions.

    Cheers!
    Thank you for the reply.

    That is helpful to know, but I'm still very confused - as you see in the video, why does he rush towards the south, where there are no minions to escort? If he is supposed to escort minions, shouldn't he stay where he is? 

    It's not the charge animation itself, but the duration of it that is different in comparison to previous patches. Previously, in prior patches, he would only charge like that when the player was nearby, which would damage any Barricades in his path. I thought this was the intent, because it forced the player to fight him away from Barricades (and potentially among other minions, hence why he does no damage).
     
    In prior patches, he also charged around when he eventually finished his initial pathing (the pathing that the regular minions take from his given gate), which occurs when he got to the Rift. This makes sense with what you say - if he "escorts" all said minions to the rift, and they get to the rift, obviously he needs to go "hunt" somewhere else. As I said though, he's doing it immediately upon spawning, regardless of where he is.

    This doesn't seem intentional. He's currently faster than Chaotic Kobold in this form, which means that any player would have an extremely hard time getting any of the Hunter traps to hit him. Can you imagine how absolutely terrible he would be if the player is using Bionka? I shudder at the thought.
  • NarkhNarkh Member
    edited December 2017
    What ends up happening is - we have Bouncer Bear spawning at one gate, running like a madman to the minion wave coming from the other gate, smashing every barricade on the way, while ignoring the player, until he reaches the 2nd gate's wave, then goes back to the player (smashing the barricades again).

    It isn't even possible to hit him with many champions as he does that. Plus he absolutely ruins Maximum Security again (first it was the fire elemental change spiking the difficulty in comparison to other Chaos Trials, now this, especially when Additional Mercenaries kick in).

    This behavior is super easy to reproduce. It is unfortunate to have such an impactful bug get through testing.
  • NarkhNarkh Member
    edited December 2017
    Uhh, not sure what happened to my previous post, for some reason it's not here anymore.

    The bear indeed runs towards a wave at top speed, smashing the barricades on the way. The problem can be described as follows: he spawns at one of the gates and rushes towards the other gate's wave for no apparent reason. At the same time he ignores the player completely until he gets to the said wave.

    Had it happen to me on Maximum Security and I gotta say it makes the map much harder and even less controllable than what it was even during overpowered fire elemental days. Even back then the map could be considered broken compared to other Chaos Trials in terms of difficulty. Now you get a random bear running over your barricades (in my case spawning at the left gate and running to the top gate's wave), while ignoring the player completely until he turns back to smash them once again. Most heroes can't even get to him to do any meaningful damage or cc him, not to mention doing it in the middle of a wave.

    At this point the mercenaries could use an overhaul. The bear is broken (seems to have a bigger hitbox for knockback than his model too), bugMage doesn't require no introduction and the Gnoll Breeder is actually a tiny little bugger under that huge outfit (his hitbox is much smaller than the model). Chaotic Kobolds end up looping between two walls or sometimes even get stuck in place spamming crystals one after another. Moreover, they tend to stay out on the map even during a Go-Break. The priest is possibly the least bugged of them all, but it seems that his shield doesn't work against Brass' Cannonball and the priest himself sometimes starts running in loops where there are no minions anymore.
  • Narkh said:
    At this point the mercenaries could use an overhaul. The bear is broken (seems to have a bigger hitbox for knockback than his model too), bugMage doesn't require no introduction and the Gnoll Breeder is actually a tiny little bugger under that huge outfit (his hitbox is much smaller than the model). Chaotic Kobolds end up looping between two walls or sometimes even get stuck in place spamming crystals one after another. Moreover, they tend to stay out on the map even during a Go-Break. The priest is possibly the least bugged of them all, but it seems that his shield doesn't work against Brass' Cannonball and the priest himself sometimes starts running in loops where there are no minions anymore.
    I have noticed the hitbox problems with Gnoll Breeder and Bouncer Bear too. I find it particularly more noticeable for Bouncer Bear, but that's probably because he's much larger. His hitbox is about half of the size of his graphic, which is a bit disorienting. The hitboxes have been like that for a few patches now though.

    Haven't really noticed any real problems with Chaotic Kobold yet, although I have seen him camp and do nothing in a corner on Eventide Fortress before 2.6. Dwarf Priest has always acted like you described though (from what I remember), and I think it's intentional, as he's just supposed to support other minions.

    As for this problem with Bouncer Bear, I think this is what happened - since he is tagged as a "yellow" enemy, I think something happened that made him prioritize barricades, like all other yellow enemies do. The "charging" is due to his targeting - normally, he's supposed to do the charging when he targets the player. Since he can't target the player until they get into view, in previous patches, he wouldn't charge out of the gate.

    However, if he is prioritizing barricades first, it's possible he can target barricades right out of the gate, which would explain him rushing through the entire map as you can see.
  • Hello everyone,

    After couples of tries in endless mostly, it appears as Bouncing Bears runs randomly and damages every barricades in their way now.

    It a huge problem because you must play with phd barricade and big game traps to take them off if you play on a map with firelings / fire ogres / many bombers, if you don’t want to loose fast your game due to only 2 changes from new patchs (revenge rune and bears).

    By example, on The Wall endless, if a bear appears and you don’t kill him, fire ogres will be destroying all our damaged barricades and you loose the game if trying to funnel all in a single way (only way to get 5stars).

    Why changed the bear, is he supposted to be OP  like atm. ? Should we reset the game everytime bears will spawn after wave25 (recurrent wave mercenaries system) ?



  • KulinaKulina Member, Moderator, Robot Entertainment
    Hello Sou1Reaper,

    I moved your post to this thread where you will find answers regarding the Bear's new behavior.

    Cheers!
    French Community Manager
  • Kulina said:
    Hello Sou1Reaper,

    I moved your post to this thread where you will find answers regarding the Bear's new behavior.

    Cheers!
    Would you care to share if there are any plans for the BugBear next patch?
  • I still don't see how he is buggy. He spawns at one entrance then beelines for a group of minions furthest from himself or stays with the pack he spawns with if there is only one. Once anyone gets close he charges straight at heroes. The behavior is exactly as Kulina stated. Anyway, I've yet to experience Bouncer Bear running amok randomly.

    If Bouncer Bear does seem to run randomly it is probably because once he gets close to his targeted minions he chooses another group to run to unless heroes come to distract him. The change is nice because Bouncer Bear was less of a threat than Chaotic Kobold before this. Now you have to go take him down before he ruins your lanes rather than wait for him to come to you.
  • Sou1ReaperSou1Reaper Member
    edited December 2017
    Hmm, I tried on Throne Room the bear just run to the rift and back to the gate, again and again until barricades are destroyed.
    They aren't caring about minions to protect or anything else, they just ruin the game.
    Can we have the old ones back please ?
  • ShadeDevShadeDev Member, Robot Entertainment, Early Access, Apprentice Founder, Featured Developer
    The design team will discuss this issue.  Thanks for the feedback.  I will reply with more information next week.
    Doug Houserman
    Robot Entertainment | Lead Balance Designer
  • NarkhNarkh Member
    edited December 2017
    PohtHehd said:
    I still don't see how he is buggy.
    He displays a lot of erroneous movement.

    From my perspective, the bear should escort the minion wave he spawns with and run at the player if he spots him, returning to the closest minion or the original wave, if the player dies, goes invisible or for any reason leaves sight.

    What I expect to happen, if the whole wave dies: the bear follows the lane towards the rift, running at the player if he spots him or running towards any minions he spots - after all he doesn't have a built-in radar to find the minion wave on the other side of the map.

    What actually happens is the bear spawns at one gate, does not escort the initial wave, but instead runs to a random minion on the map (or the last spawned or idk what the criteria is) smashing everything on the way and starts escorting this one random minion. Then again he tends to bug out cause the player may very likely end up killing the minion next to him, so he chooses another minion - perhaps from another side of the map. There were situations in which I used E+Q on Midnight to stun him and clear the wave at the same time, only to have him try running in the opposite direction after the stun ended, completely ignoring Midnight hitting him.

    The updated behavior was there supposedly in the previous patch too, but the bear would die 9 out of 10 times to the revenge run bug, so we didn't see so much of it.


  • sashimiaksashimiak Member, Moderator, Robot Entertainment
    Hello folks! Thank you all for the reports and the feedback. Design is taking another look at Bouncer Bears behavior and ShadeDev will get back to you once he has news to share next week! Thank you all for your patience!
    German Community Manager
  • ShadeDevShadeDev Member, Robot Entertainment, Early Access, Apprentice Founder, Featured Developer
    Hey guys,

    We made a change in 2.6 to fix a bug where Bouncer Bear would become unable to walk with the wave due to a narrow path.  However, this logic change has made him prioritize alternative behaviors.

    We are looking to see if there is a better way to solve the problem.
    Doug Houserman
    Robot Entertainment | Lead Balance Designer
  • On PS4, he often comes out of the gate, I attack him immediately, he bops me and he just runs back through the gate and waits there until the wave is near over. His behavior makes no sense.
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