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@Spamwagon the business model for most free to play games when done right rarely rewards spending large amounts of money on any RNG based goods. Money is always extremely useful at getting you to a mid to late point in the games progression skipping the weening process of learning the game mechanics and basic material acquisition.
I know from my experiences with other F2P titles that the initial RNG only chest purchases wasn't something I was going to invest in. What is the best value for money spent are on permanent, non-repeatable goods and services as everything else diminishes in value vs the amount acquired so far as you've come to experience here.
Things that would make sense to have a gold purchase option and feel rewarding for players are heroes and cosmetics. The RNG nature of traps, gear, guardians, and traits especially with the possible expansion of any of these at any point in time makes it so that throwing a lot of money at them at any one time is not a good long term idea, as any early purchase removes the chance to expand your inventory once they expand the possible acquirable items.
A good progression path to follow if one plans to spend money is: Purchase heroes, Purchase cosmetics for heroes (these are non-repeatable, so you can never double up), purchase some chests depending on how tolerant you are to rng (i would recommend few but that's me personally, i like to play for my rewards), save for possible events or splurging of new heroes/traps.
Once you get to the point where you're looking for individual traps to level the new layout for the daily deals/premium shoppe allows you to choose to grab parts or traps from duplicates, build up your skull pool, and then use the daily deals to max traps that aren't tier 7. If you don't need to bulk buy parts then the Chaos Keys are the most lucrative option at the moment provided you can proceed to around tier 10 on any given key and becomes even better if you have a team to share keys with regularly as it triples their value.
This isn't to say that purchasing chests isn't a great thing to do, or that it's bad, but more of a Caveat Emptor. While you have the ability to purchase whatever you want, understanding the business model of the game is important on deciding what you want to purchase. I hope that as time goes on the game does offer things that will feel rewarding for those who spend money but in the long game a F2P counts on repeatable purchases of things to stay afloat.
The chaos keys are likely the best merchandise created for the game right now and I hope that more repeatably purchasable and rewarding items like this are eventually created, we'll see as time goes on.3
so after a bit more experience with the Chaos trials, here's more feedback.
Economy modifiers are pretty tough, especially the floor/barricade Cost. Triple Barricade cost is arguably worse than double floor trap cost due to multiplayer forcing the coin split and making things really tough when adding more than 1 player into a Chaos Trial. Discount Scrolls can be used to temporarily overcome this but it's the only situation I've found really reinforces kicking someone from a group or spending skulls to make it work thus far.
Spawn Protection needs to be looked at for interactions with the gnoll breeder and elementals, if it's intended to stay as is it's probably the strongest buffs they'll ever get and makes Falling Folly and any map the breeder comes out on quite crazy, especially those with short paths to the rift The breeder can spam nigh invincible gnolls which will slow and kill players followed by camping at the rift, and if it happens before a pretty hefty killbox is built there's little players can do, combined with anything that beefs them up like additional merc spawns or melee minion damage and it becomes a nightmare scenario quickly especially when even bgh traps have difficulty taking them out.
So far, this seems to require more skill, responsiveness, and knowledge than any sabotage map has ever pushed the game to, it's definitely a sight to see.4
ShadeDev said:I agree that traits are not very fun. Out of curiosity, would you enjoy hero specific traits (akin to in-game weaver upgrades), especially if the UI automatically filtered based on hero selected?
For players who have exhausted their drops this could also be setup to add a set of obtainable loot that makes the loot boxes less stale over the course of the game's life and a player's progression as well as a new option in the gold or premium shoppe which could contain the existing traits in addition to the hero specific ones or just the latter.
This would also mean that instead of having to tweak weavers so often if some of them feel weak you wouldn't have to just dismiss one if people like it, a new one could be added to the mix and those that were ok with the previous ones could continue using them. Other than the need to acquire it, i really can't see much wrong with the idea.
Also, this could mean the possible addition of a trait tied to those character achievements that take quite some time to do which in turn could make them more interesting forms of progression.
I think if this system were put in place that weavers should be removed, it would offer less counterbalancing on the devs parts and also simplify in-game UI and decisions for players.2
Statboy said:Periclum said:Gorkster said:There is no one deck that fits all purposes.
Barricades/Spikes/Viscous Tar/Ceiling Ballista/Grinder/Swinging Mace/Floor Scorcher can solo 5* every map in the game. I'm currently using it to farm out all the hero victory chests. I keep the Root/Clover for equipment and run 2x default Guardians when I'm too lazy to pick the right ones for the map. Smashing Deals/Ultimate Set of Tools/Wall Building PhD/Big Spender are my default traits.
I'm certain there's variations on that which can do the same thing. Swapping in Brimstone for the Floor Scorcher or Ice Spikes for Spikes are the most obvious examples that come to mind. I picked this because it doesn't use any traps above Rare, 80% of your damage traps benefit from Smashing Deals, and the Floor Scorcher is (imo) the best trap in the game (has been since OMD1). Physics AND AoE fire DoT is broken.
Now, is that the BEST setup for every map? Of course not. But, it's flexible enough to clear any map without requiring any concern for what hero you're playing, and still 5* with most of them.
Also I haven't found Swinging Maces to be 1) that good at putting out consistent damage; and 2) Have very maps where you can place one in a good location. For the price I'd rather bring Pounders (since mine are tier 7) or Shock traps. Do the runners like Kobolds and Gnomes still run under the Swinging Mace? Don't get me wrong I'm not saying the Mace is bad, it just doesn't make my loadout very often.1
Lorelle said:I actually got into a Sabotage match with two players who had only red traps and the most basic of traps (to the point where I wouldn't be surprised if they were fresh out of the tutorial). It was kinda funny how easily the enemies died to me because of the averaging scaling, although what really impressed me was that somehow those two managed to hold off the first of the two paths (Thuricvold Village, first path) in Sudden Death to the point where the orcs never reached the guardian instead of just crumpling and we actually managed to win (the enemy team wasn't a premade but they had premium heros like Temper and Tundra so I assume they were more experienced than the newbies I was with unless they just cashed at the start). Not sure how a newbie Blackpaw and Max team managed to pull that off. Most of that lane was filled with their newbie spike traps and a few concussive pounders where they could fit them.
Although I did have to show them how to use barricades (another thing that makes me believe they were fresh off the tutorial). At first they didn't place any barricades at all and even spike trapped the outside of the lanes where no minions would probably go without barricades to force them there. Good thing you have a lot of time in the first set up phase.
.....but yea, minions do indeed get autoscaled to go with the level of the team.
increasing enemy pathing length and increasing the amount of time enemies spend in trapped areas is often more important than traits and trap levels.
The most solid advantage any three person team has in sabotage is communication and experience playing with the other people in their group and i agree this is hard to do with random matchmaking and even harder to overcome when matched right.
I've played with quite a few players personally who refuse to cooperate with their teams and newer players who have a sound grasp of the game and play very well despite having anymore than very basic traps. People also assume the early traps are weak which is also a falsehood in itself.2