OMD vet here this game is missing 2 things that need to come back

AshfellAshfell Member, Master Founder, Early Access
1 headshots i hate that its all about just spraying shots and aiming is pointless
2 weapon switching in omd 1 and 2 you could switch between weapons would be nice if their was another slot so if they wanted they could have a alternate weapon or make a extra weapon take up a gear slot or something i miss the bladestaff,blunderbuss and hammer from the other orcs games would be nice if they added in an extra slot for alternate weapons
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Comments

  • JuicyJuicy Member, Master Founder, Early Access
    I've been around awhile - so I can tell you what the devs have relayed (historically) to us about those two points. I can't say for certain their view on it still stands, but it seems likely.

    1.) I don't completely remember the reasoning for this. A brief look through forums history tells me the reason is either because of hackers (assuming this is less relevant with the removal of siege), because of melee balancing, or because of potential latency (server lagg) issues.

    2.) Weapon switching is supposed to be more like your skills now. Before you had maybe 2 weapons and a trinket/high cost wep. Now in OMD!U, you have your weapon and trinket (fireball ring, etc.) - but you also have your skills. The catch is that the skills come bundled with the weapon, since they're both per-hero. I think there is plans to add in the weapons you mentioned, but I have a feeling they will each be tied to their own unique hero.
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  • JacowboyJacowboy Member, Early Access
    Switching weapons is probably not gonna come back since that'd make having different heros a bit pointless... (also, they'd need to do whole sets of new animations for 15+ heros, so forget about it :p )

    That said, there's the fire bracer and the ice amulet, that work like OMD2 weapons... so there might be more at some point, but probably those that weren't visual, like those two. 
  • Bad MonkeyBad Monkey Member, Master Founder, Early Access
    As for 1.), The Devs essentially said that after in-house play testing, they had concluded that headshots did not add any measurable "fun" value, so therefore it was omitted. Myself and "everyone" else I have been playing OMD 1&2, and now OMDU with over these past years strongly disagree with the Devs conclusion on this, and would love to see it come back.

    As for 2.), From what I remember on this, a Dev has stated that this is another causality of the PvP focused engine they chose to use to developing and running this game on,which, at the time, their grand vision was more of a MOBA type game, which of course was a monumental mistake that will live on in infamy throughout all time. :pensive: lol

    Yes, myself and all of my long time OMD playing friends miss both of those aspects of the game. If indeed it is true that they cannot implement actual secondary weapons in the game due to engine restrictions, then at the very least they should bring back headshots.
  • They have also said that head shots were originally (in the previous games) designed for Max's crossbow. Do they bring it back just for Max? Do they bring it for all ranged characters, and if they do what about the melee characters? 
    They were not going to bring back something designed for one weapon. Also the server based model as opposed to local game has an impact. 
  • JacowboyJacowboy Member, Early Access
    Also "spraying shots" with max, is far from bieng pointless... you do a lot of combos by doing that... :/

    If anyone should have the headshots it should be Ivy anyways... but since latency can be VERY bad for aiming (I have a lot of trouble aiming at far away stuff), eh... I don't necessarily need them back. In your face & Penetrating arrow are more fun anyways...
  • People complain that OMDU is too easy, then they want head shots like the old games where two or three head shots could kill the biggest enemies. 
  • ShadeDevShadeDev Member, Robot Entertainment, Early Access, Apprentice Founder, Featured Developer
    1.) Headshots could return in the future, but with only one weapon from OMD that used it, it is a substantial undertaking to make work properly in a server based game.  We had a prototype of the mechanic working, but there were enough technical issues that the mechanic wasnt very fun.  We decided to revisit the mechanic later on.  

    Furthermore, as others have mentioned, does this mean every hero uses headshots?

    2.) There are several pieces of gear that behave like OMD2.  In general though, this game focuses on heroes rather than gear.  The more diverse we make gear, the less interesting heroes become.
    Doug Houserman
    Robot Entertainment | Lead Balance Designer
  • Bad MonkeyBad Monkey Member, Master Founder, Early Access
    ShadeDev said:
    ... In general though, this game focuses on heroes rather than gear.  The more diverse we make gear, the less interesting heroes become.
    Adding Headshots to mechanically ranged Heroes (Ivy & Max), would only add to their diversity, not make them less so.
  • HypovolemicHypovolemic Member
    edited February 3
    ShadeDev said:
    ... In general though, this game focuses on heroes rather than gear.  The more diverse we make gear, the less interesting heroes become.
    Adding Headshots to mechanically ranged Heroes (Ivy & Max), would only add to their diversity, not make them less so.
    However, if all ranged heroes get headshots, then that'd be a significant damage boost for ranged heroes over melee heroes. So they'd have to compensate by nerfing ranged hero normal attack damage. Which, would it turn negatively impact feel and make ranged heroes harder to play, and hence weaker than melee heroes.

    Now, just giving it to one hero as a passive ability should be fine, because they are trading some other effectiveness boost (their passive) for it. But then they've got a whole headshot system for one hero...
  • ShadeDevShadeDev Member, Robot Entertainment, Early Access, Apprentice Founder, Featured Developer
    ShadeDev said:
    ... In general though, this game focuses on heroes rather than gear.  The more diverse we make gear, the less interesting heroes become.
    Adding Headshots to mechanically ranged Heroes (Ivy & Max), would only add to their diversity, not make them less so.
    However, if all ranged heroes get headshots, then that'd be a significant damage boost for ranged heroes over melee heroes. So they'd have to compensate by nerfing ranged hero normal attack damage. Which, would it turn negatively impact feel and make ranged heroes harder to play, and hence weaker than melee heroes.

    Now, just giving it to one hero as a passive ability should be fine, because they are trading some other effectiveness boost (their passive) for it. But then they've got a whole headshot system for one hero...
    Well, and not every ranged weapon should feel like a sniper.
    Doug Houserman
    Robot Entertainment | Lead Balance Designer
  • Bad MonkeyBad Monkey Member, Master Founder, Early Access
    ShadeDev said:
    ... In general though, this game focuses on heroes rather than gear.  The more diverse we make gear, the less interesting heroes become.
    Adding Headshots to mechanically ranged Heroes (Ivy & Max), would only add to their diversity, not make them less so.
    However, if all ranged heroes get headshots, then that'd be a significant damage boost for ranged heroes over melee heroes. So they'd have to compensate by nerfing ranged hero normal attack damage. Which, would it turn negatively impact feel and make ranged heroes harder to play, and hence weaker than melee heroes.

    Now, just giving it to one hero as a passive ability should be fine, because they are trading some other effectiveness boost (their passive) for it. But then they've got a whole headshot system for one hero...
    I did not say "all ranged heroes". And no Hero in this game needs any "nerfing" at this point regardless. If anything some of them desperately need buffing.
  • Bad MonkeyBad Monkey Member, Master Founder, Early Access
    ShadeDev said:
    ShadeDev said:
    ... In general though, this game focuses on heroes rather than gear.  The more diverse we make gear, the less interesting heroes become.
    Adding Headshots to mechanically ranged Heroes (Ivy & Max), would only add to their diversity, not make them less so.
    However, if all ranged heroes get headshots, then that'd be a significant damage boost for ranged heroes over melee heroes. So they'd have to compensate by nerfing ranged hero normal attack damage. Which, would it turn negatively impact feel and make ranged heroes harder to play, and hence weaker than melee heroes.

    Now, just giving it to one hero as a passive ability should be fine, because they are trading some other effectiveness boost (their passive) for it. But then they've got a whole headshot system for one hero...
    Well, and not every ranged weapon should feel like a sniper.
    I never said they should, but using a bow should have the option of being a more precision and rewarding experience. It adds fun and excitement to the game.
  • HypovolemicHypovolemic Member
    edited February 3
    I did not say "all ranged heroes". And no Hero in this game needs any "nerfing" at this point regardless. If anything some of them desperately need buffing.
    I think headshots would have to do significant bonus damage to feel correct. Let's say double damage for the sake of argument. So your argument is that if you give Max and Ivy a stable way to do double damage, then their normal damage doesn't need to decrease compensatorily?

    I mean, I can definitely see something like the following being fun:
    • Max can headshot.
    • Ivy can charge her bow shots by holding the button.
    But not without a trade-off. Lord knows Ivy's passive needs help, so that's a potentially painless trade-off.
  • OmenemOOmenemO Member, Early Access
    • Ivy can charge her bow shots by holding the button.
    But not without a trade-off. Lord knows Ivy's passive needs help, so that's a potentially easy trade-off.
    In that example, the trade off is easily applied.  Charging shots = slower attack speed.
  • OmenemO said:
    • Ivy can charge her bow shots by holding the button.
    But not without a trade-off. Lord knows Ivy's passive needs help, so that's a potentially easy trade-off.
    In that example, the trade off is easily applied.  Charging shots = slower attack speed.
    That's a good point. Usually, those sorts of mechanics give you more damage over the charge time than you would get from normal attacks in the same time window, but there's an opportunity cost to just standing around, so it balances out.
  • Bad MonkeyBad Monkey Member, Master Founder, Early Access
    I did not say "all ranged heroes". And no Hero in this game needs any "nerfing" at this point regardless. If anything some of them desperately need buffing.
      ...So your argument is that if you give Max and Ivy a stable way to do double damage...
    No, you are making things up and twisting them in order to distort what I said and manipulate the discussion. Please stop with those silly little games.

  • TimeMasterTimeMaster Member, Early Access
    Headshot with double damage? I guess that you will need to shoot slower to achieve the the headshots so it wouldn't be as much as consistent double, but it's a reward for better aiming, instead of careless spamming.

    Charged shots could deal more damage than regular but less than 100% hits. So charging would be more situational, like at start of waves/groups or trying to shoot down specific targets. Although charged shots can always have more effects to be more interesting.
  • I am a controller player so headshots were never a real feasible option in the any of the games for me. I could do without. It would in fact make playing the headshot characters less desirable for controller players...
  • AFistAngrilyAFistAngrily Member, Early Access
    The quickest fix I can think of to bring back headshots without putting a huge strain on the server or the development team is to retool one of the early levelup weavers for max/gabriella/etc. to say something like "Shots fired at 100% crosshair accuracy do extra damage". It leaves out the critical part of actually aiming at things' heads, but it does bring back the slightly more measured and deliberate firing of a weapon.

    Granted, I'd love to see headshots back in a proper format. Especially the little guitar riff. That was the best part.
  • JacowboyJacowboy Member, Early Access
    I am a controller player so headshots were never a real feasible option in the any of the games for me. I could do without. It would in fact make playing the headshot characters less desirable for controller players...
    This is also a very good and important point, btw, since the game is slated for consoles as well.
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